botach wrote:
I wonder how many problems are caused by drivers believing that with ABS/ESP /ESC and all the other abbreviations possible that it's not possible to lose control .But ,unfortunately when things go awry on these cars, it's past the point of no return, and have these modern drivers the skills to recognise when limits are reached.
Fewer than in the days before all these electronic aids, if the statistics are to be believed. (Well, either that or it must be down to the SCPs reducing the KSI rate!
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botach wrote:
I would suggest that poor driving is covered up by mechanical intervention. Perhaps we need an MOT of drivers ,to see how many can cope with the how the likes of classic cars ( one example is the Moggy 1000 with a lively rear end) coped when thrown around. With that in mind, I'd suggest that it's the younger drivers that need testing, not the elderly, who've driven by the seat of their pants for that long, that they don't need the modern driving aids.,and instinctively know how to respond if their car is out of control. What we've now got is a generation of drivers who think that all these wonderful aids are akin to a space fiction space craft shield.
Dunno. It's a really complex one. Like you (in fact, probably mroe recetly!) I learned to drive in cars with no driver aids. My first was a little Reliant Rebel (a 4-legged one) with a whopping 35 horsepower, un-servoed drums all round, and crossplies that make today's pushbike tyres look wide! Like most other cars of the day, it had very little grip, so I learned all about what happens when you get to the limit, at very low speeds. Even when the car did let go, it was very progressive, and at such low speeds that with 35 horse, you'd pretty much no sooner have lost grip than you'd scrubbed off enough speed for it to bite again.
However, it was also true to say that those cars were much more communicative to their drivers about the road conditions and what the tyres were up to. Modern cars are so refined and well-insulated and their control systems are so heavily assisted, that the driver has to try much harder to work out what the car is telling him. They also do odd things that you wouldn't expect when you get close to the limit, as their various stability control features progressively start to try and save your life. The disadvantage, as you say, is that they aren't half going quick when they DO finally let go! And unless they're the sporty types and the handling has been optimised in that way, they're not that progressive.
I seemed to remember that most "ordinary" front wheel drive hatchbacks and saloons of the late '70s and early '80s tended to understeer like mad. That was, after all, generally regarded as the safest handling characteristic if you were going to loose grip. One good thing I notice about today's equivalent cars is that they often feel much more neutral (presumably because the manufacturers can afford to have them more neutral in the knowledge that as they reach their limits, the ESC will ensure that they don't have any nasty tricks up their sleeves). That's a welcome addition.
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