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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 01:36 
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Montrose Review (Nr Dundee) here
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Tyres and speed factors in road safety
Published on Friday 16 December 2011 06:00

LOCAL motorists are being urged to consider their driving and tyres to stay safe on the roads this winter.

A campaign launched by the Tayside Safety Camera Partnership (TSCP) aims to highlight the dangerous combination of driving too fast for the conditions with worn tyres and travelling too close to the vehicle in front. All these factors increase a vehicle’s stopping distance, especially during wet and wintery weather.

TSCP has joined forces with Angus Tyres, Michelin and ATS Euromaster in asking drivers to check their tyres, reduce their speed and keep their distance when driving in the region.

Free ice scrapers with a built-in tyre tread depth measure are being provided at branches of Angus Tyres in Montrose, Arbroath and Brechin and at ATS Euromaster, in Dundee, Perth and Forfar. Information is also being displayed to remind drivers of the simple actions that will increase their safety.

Arron Duncan, TSCP manager, said: “Motorists need to ask themselves, could they stop if they needed to? If they are driving too fast for the weather conditions and driving too close to the vehicle in front with low tread on their tyres then they are not giving themselves time to react and stop.
“Stopping distances are doubled in the wet and up to ten times greater in icy conditions and when you add speed to this, then people are increasing the risk to themselves and other road users by not being able to stop in time. ”

Wet roads, cold temperatures, snow and ice can all contribute to potentially dangerous situations such as loss of grip, aquaplaning and longer stopping distances.

Graeme Annandale, owner of Angus Tyres, said: “The simple idea of slowing down and allowing both the space and time in which to stop is something that all drivers can do in addition to paying attention to their tyres and this campaign is an important reminder of this. If drivers are unsure about tyre maintenance for any reason, then I would encourage them to take advantage of free tyre checks to be safe.”
Good that recognition is made with the dangers of travelling inappropriately like too close or too fast for conditions. Being aware too of how the environment changes, and how that effects all that we need to account for, as we travel, is most important for safe travel.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 19:18 
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The cynic in me wonders if the SCPs actually believe that worn tyres and in-appropriate speed is such a big danger as "speeding" or is it a bit of an advertising sales gimmic for the tyre companies, with a generous donation to the SCP?

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 22:59 
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From article
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Graeme Annandale, owner of Angus Tyres, said: “The simple idea of slowing down and allowing both the space and time in which to stop is something that all drivers can do in addition to paying attention to their tyres and this campaign is an important reminder of this. If drivers are unsure about tyre maintenance for any reason, then I would encourage them to take advantage of free tyre checks to be safe.”


Pity these "experts" don't mention the need to lok ahead and gather the necessary speed to get up a hill - in my experience a bit of speed in hand ( and knowing what is needed vs what is excessive ) when aproaching a hill in inclemental conditions can mean the difference between getting up safely and ending up half way up and possibly sliding back . A lot of problems (IMHO) come from the inexperienced believing that it is possible to change gear half way up an icy slope ,when the time to change down is before the need is there .

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 23:08 
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Steady on old boy, you've mentioned that forbidden word, "speed" twice in that statement...one more time and you're sent off...;-)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 19, 2011 23:26 
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graball wrote:
Steady on old boy, you've mentioned that forbidden word, "speed" twice in that statement...one more time and you're sent off...;-)


When I see a slope covered in snow -I feel the need for a little bit of speed ( but not what' being sold accross the road :wink: )
OOPS -is my red car in post :twisted:

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 03:05 
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graball wrote:
The cynic in me wonders if the SCPs actually believe that worn tyres and in-appropriate speed is such a big danger as "speeding" or is it a bit of an advertising sales gimmic for the tyre companies, with a generous donation to the SCP?
I am quite sure that there is a 'convenient' link with a profit lining firmly in the mind of the tyre organisation. The SCP would not be showing good sense if they are singling out any one specific organisation.

Regarding speed up a hill.
Of course when weather is bad, it can be important to have enough speed to enable enough momentum to reach the top of the hill, but as you also rightly say not too much, just enough. Slowing and going slow enough is important at the top so that the down hill is not then out of control which would likely result in a slide off the road.

Appropriate speed for the conditions, is usually reasonable and normal, but may not be 'legal' as it might be over the posted limit. This leads to disrespect of the posted limits and the Law.
Since so many roads are now set to the 'average mean', it may well become 'normal' that the chosen speed by the responsible motorist who is travelling within the 85th%ile perfectly safely, but who now finds themselves, over the posted limit. This makes the normal actions of the responsible and considerate motorist now illegal, whereas it is most important for road safety that they are legal. The whole systems has concentrated so much on speed and slowing things down it has forgotten what makes a motorist alert and aware makes them concentrate and anticipate, so when potential danger first starts to present its-self, they are acting most appropriately immediately.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 09:36 
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I would hope there weren't TOO many snowy slopes where you needed to exceed the speed limit to get up them! :o

As this thread has "tyres" in the title, I think I'd like to see it a legal requirement in the UK to have to fit winter tyres (in winter) as in other EC countries. At present, I can't persuade my employer to shell out for a set for my company car, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that respect!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 10:07 
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Given the average temperature and general weather in this country, why don't manufacturers fit all weather tyes as standard in the UK?

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 19:14 
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The weather does not always demand 'winter tyres' though so why put on a 'worse' compound when the weather is less sever 'just in case' it might get bad ?
The result maybe more accidents, as the winter tyres fail to grip better in 'better weather'. (I believe that I am correct in this.)
The cost is am issue for many too but it is a secondary factor.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 22:44 
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Mole wrote:
I would hope there weren't TOO many snowy slopes where you needed to exceed the speed limit to get up them! :o

As this thread has "tyres" in the title, I think I'd like to see it a legal requirement in the UK to have to fit winter tyres (in winter) as in other EC countries. At present, I can't persuade my employer to shell out for a set for my company car, and I'm sure I'm not alone in that respect!

In all honesty , I come from a part of the world where single track roads were the norm ,hills were untreated ( as the norm) an we drove round in RWD cars ( as the norm) . Winter tyre were not an option in those years .We got around by learning to drive to the conditions - carying the right stuff to get out ,and helping each other out ( sanding hills etc).
The one and only time i got stuck was when my battery gave up .
I'd suggest that again ,EDUCATION/DRIVER TRAINING is the problem -it's sensless having winter tyres /4wd if the driver has no education or training in countering the condition . I was used to getting my mate out of problems in his early Transit simply because his right foot was too heavy .

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 14:07 
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malcolmw wrote:
Given the average temperature and general weather in this country, why don't manufacturers fit all weather tyes as standard in the UK?


Don't know. As I understand it, "All weather" refers more to tread pattern than compound. They might have tread patterns more suitable for snow, at (I guess), the expense of a slight loss of sharpness of response in the dry - especially in hot weather? These days, low rolling resistance is what all the manufacturers are looking for as OE, to get their corporate average CO2 emissions down.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 14:10 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
The weather does not always demand 'winter tyres' though so why put on a 'worse' compound when the weather is less sever 'just in case' it might get bad ?
The result maybe more accidents, as the winter tyres fail to grip better in 'better weather'. (I believe that I am correct in this.)
The cost is am issue for many too but it is a secondary factor.


The "crossover point" seems to be generally accepted at about 7 degrees C. Below that, proper "winter" tyres have an increasing advantage over summer and all-season tyres. 7 degrees ain't that cold! Not sure how they'd cope with summer, but I think they just wear out a bit quicker - especially if driven hard. as far as I'm aware, there's no loss of grip in hot weather.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 15:32 
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Mole wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
.... The result maybe more accidents, as the winter tyres fail to grip better in 'better weather'. (I believe that I am correct in this.)
The "crossover point" seems to be generally accepted at about 7 degrees C. Below that, proper "winter" tyres have an increasing advantage over summer and all-season tyres. 7 degrees ain't that cold! Not sure how they'd cope with summer, but I think they just wear out a bit quicker - especially if driven hard. as far as I'm aware, there's no loss of grip in hot weather.
If the tyres are 'stiffer' then they will have less 'give' on corners and so on - yes ?
Certainly 7deg C is comparatively warm.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 19:28 
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From what I know of Winter tyres, apart from having different tread patterns which encourages snow to "stick" to them and so help grip (this is done by having very fine cuts in the blocks , I believe), they are also a softer compound which would wear quicker but I doubt if it would give less dry road or wet road grip.

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 25, 2011 19:49 
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SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
Mole wrote:
SafeSpeedv2 wrote:
.... The result maybe more accidents, as the winter tyres fail to grip better in 'better weather'. (I believe that I am correct in this.)
The "crossover point" seems to be generally accepted at about 7 degrees C. Below that, proper "winter" tyres have an increasing advantage over summer and all-season tyres. 7 degrees ain't that cold! Not sure how they'd cope with summer, but I think they just wear out a bit quicker - especially if driven hard. as far as I'm aware, there's no loss of grip in hot weather.
If the tyres are 'stiffer' then they will have less 'give' on corners and so on - yes ?
Certainly 7deg C is comparatively warm.


Dunno! I know just enough about tyre design to know that it's phenomenally complex and that I, er, don't know very much about tyre design!

"Stiff" needs defining in this context, I think. There are tyres that are "stiff" because of the inflation pressure. There are tyres that are "stiff" because of the carcass design. You also need to say whether you mean "stiff" radially (i.e. the amount of deflection towards the centre of the wheel when they hit a bump), or "stiff" axially (which, I'm guessing, means along the axis of rotation, so towards or away from the longitudinal centreline of the car). I've driven on two different brands of tyre, both the same nominal size, load and speed rating, and the car has felt totally different on each. In fact, I think the tyres make more difference to the feel of a car's handling than just about anything else. Deep tread blocks with big spaces between them can feel awful driven hard on tarmac, because each of the tread blocks just deforms and the car feels really vague. Sprinters and hill climbers (in fact most motorsport formulae, that use road tyres, I think) tend to buff the tyres down until they're just about legal so as to minimise tread block distortion.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 12:18 
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Claire, I don't think winter tyres are stiffer than summer tyres, probably the the otherway round (where did you see that they were stiffer), I've always been led to believe that a higher profile tyre (allowing more flex or give) was better than a low profile, less flexing/stiffer tyre, in snow.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 26, 2011 13:21 
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Humm I read it and I'll have to dig out the section but it was a while back. I likely provided a previous link in a prior winter tyre discussion. I'll see if I can dig it out and update this post with it.

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