Safe Speed Forums

I'm normally an off peak motorways user, but last weekend took a trip from Essex to sunny Ironbridge to my sisters wedding. I had to do this on Friday afternoon. I would normally travel in the evening when the traffic is light.

The traffic was heavy but moving and it was more evident the effect that speed limited LGV's have. If the driver of a light vehicle wants to travel faster than the LGV's but not speed, they tend to just sit in lane 2. Why shouldn't they? The highway code says you keep left unless you are overtaking and they are always overtaking. They could and probably should keep moving back to lane 1. I've tried this, not speeding and moving back and forth between lanes 1 and 2 and it is hard work, checking to see the blind spot and generally moving in and out of the trucks. Much harder than going with the flow in lane 3. Then you get the guy who's limiter is 1 mph better than the next guy and he jumps into lane 2 and so the rest of the traffic has to bunch up in lane 3. He's entitled to do this so we can't really complain.

Then there's the 2 second rule. It makes alot of sense, you ned time to brake. However, you can, and I did end up almost traveling backwards in lane 3 because people jump into your safety zone, so you back off alittle to open up some space then some body else jumps in and so it goes on. Also when the road opens up how is the guy in front to know you'd like to get past when you are a good safe distance behind? Sure the limit is 70, but the pace of lane 3 is 85.

Which brings me to tailgating. Perhaps a new law could charge people with being tailgated? Some people will think I've gone mad but think about it. I followed an LS400 and new Range Rover for 10 miles or more. The LS400 was the lead vehicle then the Range Rover and me behind watching at a safe distance. The LS was travelling at 70 in lane 3 but with plenty of clear road a head. Rangey wanted to past and so did I to use this clear road. There was plenty of room in lane 2 to pull into as he was being undertaken, but he flattly refused to move over. Is it his job to stop people speeding? It just frustrates people, so pull over.

The there's breakdowns and accidents. Are people rubbernecking or are they slowing down so they don't blow the recovery guys over?

I'll be doing me travelling under cover of darkness in future...

To answer the last part first, no it's definately not his job to stop people speeding. In fact I'm sure such behaviour can be prosecuted anyway for causing an obstruction, or driving without due care perhaps?
Trafpol?

The advice given not too long ago on one of the many repeats of Police, Camera, Action is that if it is obvious that somebody wants to get past you, then you should allow them to do so (even if they are exceeding the speed limit).

Trying to act as law enforcement officer and stop people from exceeding the posted limit can result in the driver behind wanting to beat the ever living crap out of you for being a knob jockey (aka Road rage)

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

re adam l ---(cant get quote to select just bits, will some day, so will have to resort to this)

"Then there's the 2 second rule. It makes alot of sense, you ned time to brake. However, you can, and I did end up almost traveling backwards in lane 3 because people jump into your safety zone, so you back off alittle to open up some space then some body else jumps in and so it goes on"

Seem to remember posing this very same question some time ago --its very frustrating , lane 1 is full, lane 2 is slowish, with the faster HGV in it so you resort to lane3 to kep up your speed . Lane 3 is moving about 70 and you give the car in front a 2 sec gap.Lane 3 has a long line of traffic in it.In your mirror you see a car (usually with the jacket on a coathanger ,that certain BIB in here love) move fron lane 3 to lane 2 , speed up and undertake the traffic in lane 3 , ending up in your gap.
As adam says - you end up going backward and its frustrating.
Almost as frustratinf as following one of the "speed regulators"
Funny how it never hapens when BIB around.
Mind you there aint the quantity of BIB around on the motorways - pity as it would only be a simple matter for a camera controller to ask one to investigate.

I seem to remember from my time in Germany, if you wanted to overtake someone on the motorway, you used your offside indicator to let them know, then they were ogliged by law to pull over at the next available opportunity to let them past.
The idea of flashing your headlights was considered to be aggressive driving and you could be reported for doing so.
They really did seem to have some good road laws in Germany.

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Semper in excreta, nur quantitat variat.

There's a damn sight more BiB on motorways than on most other roads. Arguably it would be better if more were patrolling inner urban areas instead, where many of the really dangerous drivers (usually unlicensed) hang out.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I'm guilty of misquoting the sentence, until I looked it up.

Motorways. I'm a prolific user, and get thoroughly racked off by some of the antics I see.

Unfortunately, perhaps, many people can still remember the public information sequences of the 60's - 70's that advised people to adjust to Motorway driving before attaining higher speeds.

This then results in many drivers joining the Motorway in trepidation of what the will encounter, and limit their speed accordingly. Which, to an HGV driver, amounts to a pain in the posterior.

It should be general knowledge to most drivers that HGV's are limited for 56(ish) mph, therefore, attaining the mid 50's in the acceleration lane will invariably enable a gap to be located. Some motorists sit there almost expecting large vehicles to suddenly accelerate with the performance of a Phantom Jet. It ain't gonna happen.

Alright, the gap may only be 75 yards, but for gawds sake get into it and you'll probably find Lane 2 is clear. Thankyou and goodbye.

I always try and educate people that joining a Motorway consists of three stages. The first is to ensure that it is free running. Why join a car park? For anyone who knows Milton Keynes, going from the A421 (H7?) to the M1 North provides various routes. From the Waitrose/Hays operation, you can either go up the dual carriageway with a couple of roundabouts and then turn right, or you can go along to the B.P. services and follow the single carriageway to Jn 12. The latter runs alongside, and provides a view of, the M1. Ideal for assessing congestion, and providing an option to cut back across on the A421 to the M40

The second stage is the Entry Slip road. Simple enough.

The third stage is the Acceleration Lane. The portion of road in which you adjust your speed to that of the lane you are about to join.

The number of times that I see motorists either, dither about not getting up to speed, or worse, racing regardless of what is in lane 1, and then veering out whilst braking because they are nearing the hard shoulder.

And it's the same leaving a Motorway. The poor lorry driver is much maligned for pulling out into Lane 2, but how often is this because a car driver is dabbing the brakes prior to leaving the main carriageway. All exits (although I'm sure someone will identify exceptions) provide a Deceleration Lane. From experience, I know of no exits where it is not possible to leave the main carriageway, in dry conditions, at a ton, and still stop at the junction. (Traffic congestion permitting). So why do people stare ahead abjectly unaware of following vehicles?

And whilst I'm on a roll.

Why do people park in the MIDDLE of lay-bys?

Is it to protect their 'individual' space, or because that is where the council have sited the bin?

It takes a fair stretch of lane to straighten up an artic.

As a passenger, with a female driver, I once challenged her as to why she had chosen to stop in the middle. She didn't have a reply. I then pointed out that should anything park in front of her then it would make it more difficult to rejoin the traffic flow, particularly if, when travelling as a lone female, she felt threatened by the occupants of a car pulling up behind.

When it was pointed out to her that moving to the far end of the lay-by provided little possibility of being obstructed, and a clear avenue of escape if threatened. She agreed it made sense.

Rant over.

Motorways are crowded. The M25 is being widened to 4 lanes to deal with the problem. Where is everyone going, can public transport help?

Would using the railways instead of the motorways help reduce the numbers of lorries crawling along the slow and middle lanes? Are lorries on the motorways because of the rail strikes of the 70s?

It would be interesting to see the original documents discussing motorways and their intended uses and traffic volumes.

M4 J7 w/b may qualify - tight left hand bend with a 40 advisory limit starting almost immediately after you've cleared L1. Waiting until you're completely into the exit lane before braking means you WILL be braking hard to scrub off enough speed to take the corner, and that's just if you were doing 70-80. The thought of trying to take the exit at 100 without slowing down at all on the main carriageway... no thanks. And the corresponding e/b exit isn't much better.




Maybe because when they got to the lay-by, someone like you was already parked at the far end? Or maybe because, if the lay-by is empty when they arrive, it's the ideal spot to pick - you can pull off the main carriageway and then decelerate in the lay-by, and provided no-one else parks in front of you before you leave you then also have room to accelerate before rejoining the main carriageway.

True, if it's a short lay-by, then deliberately opting to stop in a position which would make it difficult/impossible for anyone else to use the lay-by is inconsiderate, but that's a specific case and shouldn't mean that in general it's the wrong thing to do.

Public transport only accounts for about 15% of total passenger-km.

Even if you doubled its market share, it would only have a fairly small impact on road traffic.

Public transport is good for radial journeys into city centres, but is very poor for orbital journeys between peripheral locations, which is what is typically happening on the M25.

The M25 was originally conceived as only one of three motorway-standard ring roads for London. One would have followed the route of the North and South Circulars, the other would have run 15-20 miles further out from the M25. If that had happened, the M25 would flow much more freely.

Chronic congestion in the UK is the result of an inadequate road network, not "too much traffic".

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Grumps said"" Unfortunately, perhaps, many people can still remember the public information sequences of the 60's - 70's that advised people to adjust to Motorway driving before attaining higher speeds. "

Unfortunately , some of us still remember the advice given on choosing lanes. "Lane 1 = slow lane, Lane 2 driving ( or some other silly name, think it was fast lane.) , and lane 3 = overtaking lane
Then it occurred to the brainless wonders running the roads, that the motorway, with a few cars on it would have a string of equally brainless wonders driving cars up lane 2. So they changed that to stay as far left as possible ,consistent with safety ( or some similar PC chant)

A short time ago someone opened the ideas cupboard at the Highways agency and out fell the idea of suggesting that lane 1 was being underused by the Middle lane owners club.
It seems that the cleaner found that gem on the table and tidied it away as that was the last we seem to have heard of that idea(Just as some motorway congestion was clearing, as Middle lane owners club felt that trafpols were on the lookout for them and moved over.
Today , we find it not impossible, but impractable to drive in lane 1 - try passing pillock in lane 2 doing 60 mph - first move from lane 1 to lane 2, before you reach said pillock. then (when you get a chance) move into lane 3 , pass pillock and return to lane 1. After a few times the novelty wears off .

When will someone with some sense send out trafpols to look for these idiots. They don't have to ticket them , just hold them up long enough to inconvenience them - word will soon spread and commmon sense will again reign.- or if it dont - perhaps the thought of ££££ contributions to the police will.
Like you said grumps - these are a few of my favourite hates.
[/quote]

Indeed, we've all seen this "idiot" - I did today - I only went 7 miles on the M6 on the way to the match (we are top of the league... that's another story )

Driving happily in lane 1, numpty going nowhere in lane 2 - overtake from lane 1 to 3 then back to lane 1 - yes!! numpty still doing 55mph in lane 2 ...

I had a good look at him - strangely enough, he was about "60" and totally oblivious to all around...

I hate driving on the Mways at weekends, far better going up to Cumbria during the week when the traffic is moving freely - too "freely" perhaps for JJ's case....

This is an interesting and salient point IMHO. Our highways are now full of people driving around with vastly differing models and ideas in their head as to what constitutes safe and proper driving practice. What to one person seems safe and considered driving is dawdling to another; the latters urgency to make progress is seen as impatience and aggression by the former.
Can the playing field be re-levelled (or at least have the peaks and troughs smoothed off) by the re-airing of some of those old but pragmatic road safety infommertials?

If only people would use the same principles for motorway passing as on single-carriageways - ie accelerate to pass smartly and then pull back in again, there would be very little of that type of problem.

BTW Botach, any text between the [ quote] and [ /quote] blocks will appear as a quote. So just delete the text you don't want.

Cheers
Peter

Public transport (trains included) suffers from serious drawbacks, not least of all that the capacity simply isn't there to transport more than a small percentage of the total travelling public. The two biggest reasons for this are a) people have prohibitively widely varying patterns of travel, and b) the cost.
And even if there was, this wouldn't necessarily ease congestion, as congestion is more down to the number of vehicles on the roads per unit of time, rather than the number of vehicles per se. If the roads were quieter, people would change their patterns of travel (so as to sleep a bit later in the morning, for example) so you'd soon be back to square one.



No, and for the same reasons - capacity and cost. There are just as many lorries on continental motorways, and they didn't have our rail strikes.

Cheers
Peter

Peter, I didn't see the end of my sentance in your quote - "you end up going backward , and it's frustrating".

The important bit for road safety is the last 3 words "and it's frustrating". - cause of many accidents - FRUSTRATION.

Believe me i've actually seen this - the said idiot who undertakes a line of cars finds a space he can force his way into , only he meets someone as bloodyminded as him who speeds up to close the gap and a battle of wits ensues at 70 -90 mph - the bloke at the head of the row has had it done once too often , he's left a good gap in front to see it nibbled away at , and he gets frustrated.

Happens especially when the motorway is running well but full.

Recipe for a really nasty one.

The other one - tunnelvision man in lane 3 at 70 , sitting at head of line of cars deciding that since 70 is the limit, all will obey it.
Frustration builds behind him, untill a gap opens in lane 2 and cars start undertaking prat - just as vehicles start to overtake from lane 1

Recipe 2.- shouldnt happen , but i've almost seen it happen

Blimey, some rant.

Never mind posting through the bottom of an empty glass. That was a bottles' worth.