Safe Speed Forums

Take a look at http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8009364.stm

Jim Fitzpatrick can not see any further than "speed kills".

Typical news management. Announce NSL reduction to 50mph and wait for huge outcry. Then tone it down and everyone thinks "quite reasonable". Except me.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

We may see less injuries on the slower roads which is a good thing, but overall i think there will actually be more accidents caused by people not paying attention to the road, as well as the continuing decline in driving standards due to "speed kills", which i certainly don't think is good and i'm uncomfortable with this, it doesn't feel right that there will probably be more accidents but clearly highlights the many areas of good driving which this labour government just will not address. Many of the MP's don't drive, resulting in a "builders doing a hairdressers job" situation ie not qualified to do the job, when it comes to road safety.

Speed reduction consultation

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8009364.stm



we need to locate this document and make a serious assult on this nanny state

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

What these so-called road safety researchers don't tell you is that only 2% of struck pedestrians are killed (and that ratio likely to be lower due to the unreported, non-serious accidents, and lower again within areas such as towns and cities). What does that tell you?

These researchers also fail to mention how effective other campaigns are, campaigns such as the Green Cross Code which help prevent pedestrians from straying into the paths of vehicles in the first place - whatever their speed. Since when was one group allowed to abdicate their responsibility? It's not like pedestrians aren't the cause of the majority of pedestrian accidents! (RCGB2007 table 4e)

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Thanks, but a parallel thread is already here.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

It's not the nannying that is the issue. It is the inability to understand accident causation! I also bet it is an EU thing as they're obsessed with making everyone drive around like snails. The lower speed limits to reduce the consequence of accidents is like refusing to clean hospitals to prevent MRSA but making sure there are some good antibiotics to reduce the effects of catching it!

change the title of your thread to convay that it is a consultation and lock this one ?

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Elsewhere it was reported that they wanted these measures to cut road deaths by a third, but how can they when far less than a third of accidents are caused by speeding?

Did you read what you wrote?

How can cutting speed limits by 10mph cut road deaths by a third when only 6% of accidents are caused by speeding?

Because the accident that are not caused by speeding will be less severe if the speed is lower???

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I'm sure you would agree that road safety should primarily be about avoiding accidents and not about accepting their inevitability

Being serious: would the speeds be slower by any significant amount? Where the limit reduction is sensible most drivers would already be doing that speed anyway; drivers would continue at their previous pace where the reduction not sensible; joyriders and such don't give a stuff about limits anyway (and I suspect these guys are a little bit over-represented in accident stats). Would this these measures really make 1/3 of a difference?

But wait, there's more. We already know that very few of the pedestrians who are hit are killed (significantly less than 2%), so drivers generally can't be going that fast to begin with - yes?

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Steve. Today I heard the Minister of Transport say that speed was the cause of 30% of road deaths. My immediate reaction was to wonder what kills the other 70%. Without speed there are are few accidents.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I have merged these two topics ... including New Speed Limit Reduction Proposed into this one.

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

My immediate reaction is to say he's talking bollox.
- Firstly, the actual figure is half that (17% - p44 RCGB2007) and most of that pie can't be cured with lower limits (the 'too fast's were already below the speed limit).
- Secondly, the speed is not a "cause", it is merely a contributory factor. There are an average of 2.5 contributory factors per fatality (table 4b, total of column 1 (6333) against the total (2538)).

Are you sure it wasn't the Iraqi Minister of Information who gave the claim you quoted?


Without speed there is no transportation.

I did notice how you formatted your response to not be seen to have evaded my questions to you.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The point HMG keep missing is primary and secondary causes, remove a primary cause and that particular accident cannot happen, remove a secondary and the accident can still happen albeit with a reduced severity of outcome (injury instead of death)

This is not a pie in the sky idea but has been a proven methodology in occupational H&S since the time of the Health and Morals of Apprentices Act 1802.

It's been used to make industries such as rail, aviation, explosives and petrochem the safe industries they are now from the disaster zones they used to be.

Speed is a secondary factor - control speed and all that is controlled is the severity of outcome.

How come these used car salesmen in mufti can't grasp this simple fact ?

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Lists of new reports :
Consultation on a new road safety strategy : A Safer Way dft J Fitzpatrick here : http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechessta ... nts/wmsrss

(sadly I have not been included in this one but I have spoken tothem today ...) PA Press that is:
PA Press Agency : HERE
LONDON (AFP) : HERE
Guardian : POLL HERE
the two questions are hardly unbiased ! poll closes in two days :
"49.4% Yes, speed limits improve traffic safety
50.6% No, let me drive as fast as I want " this result when I voted.

SKY News : HERE
Belfast Telegraph (Note Safe Speed comments included) Atricle : Speed limit row divides road safety groups HERE

Community Newswire
SPEED CUT PLANS 'WILL MAKE SAFER AND MORE CIVILISED STREETS' By Emma Foster, Community Newswire TRANSPORT Speed, 21 Apr 2009 - 12:08
http://www.communitynewswire.press.net/ ... id=5701578 (Copyright © Press Association 2009)

Guardian - http://www.guardian.co.uk
Drivers face tougher test and lower speed limits in move to cut road deaths
Government begins consultation in attempt to reduce number of fatalities from 3,000 a year - Stephen Bates and agencies - Tuesday 21 April 2009 09.56 BST
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/apr/2 ... ving-tests

ITV News
http://www.itv.com/News/Articles/Speed- ... 73592.html
Speed limits could be cut - Published: Tuesday, 21 April 2009, 12:22PM

The Herald
Web Issue 3440 MSP backs plan to cut limit to 50mph on country roads - April 21 2009
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/news/di ... _roads.php
- Speed limits may be cut by GERRY BRAIDEN - April 20 2009
http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/other/d ... be_cut.php

Key103
Manchester to get lower speed limits?
The Government wants to make the streets of Greater Manchester safer by lowering speed limits by Tom Hourigan
http://www.key103.co.uk/Article.asp?id= ... spid=23160

Telegraph
- Tougher speed limits smack of revenue-raising - 12:32PM BST 21 Apr 2009
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/5193 ... ising.html Last Updated:
Telegraph View: The Government should have better things to do amid a financial crisis than tinker with speed limits.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/news ... 50mph.html
- A-road speed limits to be reduced to 50mph - Last Updated: 7:32AM BST 21 Apr 2009
The speed limit on A-roads will be reduced to 50mph in an attempt cut the number of road deaths by a third.

and also : (Inc Safe Speed comment)
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... eaths.html
- 20mph limit to cut road deaths - By Andrew Porter and David Millward - Last Updated: 9:43AM BST 18 Apr 2009
Speed limits are to be cut on roads across the country under government plans to reduce accidents.

This is Leicestershire
20mph plan to cut deaths on roads - Tuesday, April 21, 2009, 08:00
http://www.thisisleicestershire.co.uk/n ... ticle.html

Autocar
Speed limit cuts a step closer - 21 April 2009
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... rs/239647/
ABD have place a 10 Downing street petition against this here: signing the speed limit petition here
http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArtic ... rs/239447/

Evening Standard
Drivers face 20mph limit on all residential roads to cut deaths by Paul Waugh, Deputy Political Editor - 21.04.09
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/ ... article.do

InTheNews
Mixed response to speed limit plans - Tuesday, 21 Apr 2009 10:22
http://www.inthenews.co.uk/news/transpo ... 289546.htm

Mirror
Speed limit of 50mph to cut deaths - 21/04/2009
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/top-storie ... -21294104/

Oxford Mail
- Police will impose planned 20mph limits - 7:50pm Tuesday 21st April 2009
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/430852 ... ph_limits/
- 20mph scheme likely to be driven through By Chris Walker - 8:40pm Sunday 19th April 2009
http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/430257 ... n_through/

MailOnlne
A-roads to have speed limit reduced to 50mph as part of Government's road safety plans
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... plans.html
By Eddie Wrenn - Last updated at 12:21 PM on 21st April 2009

Daily Mail Safe Speed comment
Speed limit to be cut to 20mph in government bid to reduce number of road deaths - By Daily Mail Reporter - Last updated at 8:29 AM on 21st April 2009
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... eaths.html

BBC News Page last updated at 10:55 GMT, Tuesday, 21 April 2009 11:55 UK
Plans to cut traffic speed limits - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8009364.stm

UPI.com Britain cutting speed limit for safety - April 18, 2009 at 2:10 PM
http://www.upi.com/Top_News/2009/04/18/ ... 240078225/

24Dash.com
http://www.24dash.com/news/Local_Govern ... y-strategy
'More 20mph zones' at heart of new Government road safety strategy - Monday 20th April 2009 - 3:59pm
Published by Jon Land for 24dash.com in Communities , Local Government , Central Government

RAC
Plans for lower road speed limits
New guidelines on speed limits for local roads in England and Wales are likely to be included in a 10-year road safety strategy launched by the Government.
http://www.rac.co.uk/know-how/motoring- ... 240241191A Copyright © Press Association 2009
Shake-up to speed limits planned
and - http://www.rac.co.uk/know-how/motoring- ... OAD+SAFETY Copyright © Press Association 2009

VisorDown
No blanket 50mph speed reduction for UK By Visordown News
Department of Transport to encourage local agencies to improve safety standards on high-risk roads
http://www.visordown.com/motorcyclenews ... /6794.html

Which - includes Safe Seed comment.
http://www.which.co.uk/news/2009/04/dri ... 174512.jsp
Drivers face more 20mph speed limits Speed limits on A-roads could also be cut - 21 April 2009

WalesOnline
More 20mph zones in road safety bid - Apr 21 2009
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/uk-ne ... -23431506/

The Sun
Gov to propose 20 mph limit By HARRY HAYDON
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/ne ... 383818.ece

ABROAD :
ABC.net (Tasmanian roads Australia) Govt reviews highway speed limits - Posted Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:02am AEST
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009 ... 547232.htm

Columbian Missourian
Sunday, April 19, 2009 | 12:01 a.m. CDT
Speed limit study could lead to citywide slowdown BY Brittany March
http://www.columbiamissourian.com/stori ... ordinance/

The Mercury Tasmania
Speed limit slash plan by LINDA SMITH - April 21, 2009 08:36am
http://www.themercury.com.au/article/20 ... -news.html

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

The indications are that the 20mph will in some areas will be enforced by average speed cameras.

Some areas are not going to be enforced, unless a policeman has reason to query a driver.

Police are also to have rights to stop anyone they like to breathalise them. I do not have a problem with this, per say.

I cannot approve this Policy. It has nothing to do with Road Safety and will not make the roads safer. Drivers will be concentrating on their speed and not on the road ahead and especially in the enforced areas.
Plus lets NOT forget Al Gullon's scientific research that shows that in times of recession we all tend to drive far more defensively and there are less accidents as drivers are 'naturally' more 'on the defense' so ANY result that might show and apparent improvement will not be down to this IF it all comes in.
"Full details are set out in Learning to Drive: Report on Consultation, copies of which have been placed in the Library of the House. The consultation on the new road safety strategy closes on 14th July 2009. Copies of the consultation document have been placed in the Libraries of the House and are also available in the Vote Office and Printed Paper Office."

I have heard today too that there are going to be 6 points for 15mph over the limit which is a drop in 5mph from just a few months ago ! I have not read this officially yet. If anyone find it can they notify me please.

More links :
Consultation on a new road safety strategy
A Safer Way: Consultation on Making Britain's Roads the Safest in the World
Road safety compliance consultation
Tomorrow’s roads – safer for everyone: The second three-year review
Think

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

Something I noted in the Guardian article:




Now why do the police need increased powers to stop vehicles without suspecting an offence ? Fishing expediation, catch someone who is running late, drag the checks out unitil they lose thier temper then an easy nick ? Sounds very distrustful, but we are giving up far too many freedoms and using the anti terror laws and how much 'mission creep' there has been and how much abuse of those laws are taking place on a regular basis.

Limit motorists right to contest charges, presumably so that motorists who have been prosecuted where signage is wrong or the camera is aimed at the wrong part of the road ie before a speed limit change down will not be able to clear themselves of these gross cock ups.

Or am I being very cynical ??

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Because it isn't true. Speed is both a primary and a secondary factor. The dishonesty of the "speed kills" campaign is in blurring the distinction between the two and in putting too much emphasis on secondary factors.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown