Safe Speed Forums

TRAFFIC came to a standstill in Kings Stag this week as villagers staged a protest calling for the speed limit to be lowered.
On Tuesday at rush hour scores of people young and old blocked the road and waved placards at motorists urging them to slow down.
The community has got together to campaign for the speed limit to be dropped from 40 to 30mph.
They have vowed to continue to disrupt traffic on the B3143 road through their village until it is made safe.
“There are more than 30 children and 60 pensioners in the village,” said Graham Walters, who is leading the fight. “The only shop is on this road and there is no street lighting or footway and they have to negotiate the passing traffic on the roadway on a daily basis.”
Villagers have been calling for a reduced speed limit for many years. They claim some motorists drive through the village at high speeds well above the limit and are demanding traffic calming measures and regular police enforcement.
“The Department for Transport guidelines state that all villages should be afforded the protection of a 30mph speed limit,” Mr Walters added. “Kings Stag satisfies the village criteria. Other neighbouring villages on the same road have had the limits reduced.
“Most of those driving through the village are sensible and they can’t be blamed for adhering to the 40 mph limit, however inappropriate it is. Unfortunately, there are also the mindless idiots who blast through the village daily and they can easily be targeted by minimal but focused police attention.”
Mr Walters pointed out the difference between surviving an accident at 30mph and 40mph.
“The difference is critical. Nearly nine people a day die on Britain’s roads and excessive speed is a major contributory factor in more than 1,000 deaths a year.”
Andrew Bradley, Dorset County Council’s project engineer for network traffic management, said the council would review the speed limit at Kings Stag. The DfT has asked councils to review speed limits on A and B roads by 2011 and Kings Stag’s case has been brought forward.
He said the council’s policy adhered to national guidelines on the 30mph limit being the norm for villages, but added that it was where appropriate.
A seven-day survey will be undertaken to assess the speed and volume of traffic on the road through the village.
Mr Bradley explained that a speed indicator device in the village suggested that traffic was travelling at an average of 47mph. He had to prove a 30mph limit was safer, as sometimes the lower limit can give a false sense of security.
“There is a fair amount of research that suggests lower limits increase traffic speed because people get frustrated,” he said. “Traffic speed is dictated by road conditions. With a wide and straight road it is harder for the motorist to keep their speed down. But we are generally supportive.”
He said the council would consult with villagers, other authorities in the area, and the police, responsible for enforcement, about the limit

Sir

When my partner told me that the residents of King’s Stag had been standing in the middle of the road with their children, protesting about the 40 limit, I assumed she was joking. Apparently not...

The leader of the protests says that they want the limit lowering because "excessive speed is a major factor in more than 1000 deaths a year" (which isn't strictly true if you look at the stats, but let's move on). He then goes on to say "Most of those driving through the village are sensible and they can't be blamed for adhering to the 40 mph limit... unfortunately, there are also the mindless idiots who blast through the village daily..."

So the problem is not people rightly doing 40 mph, but people who don't care what the limit is. So how is reducing the limit by 10 mph going to change anything? The mindless idiots' behaviour will continue, surely, whatever the signs say?

This actually highlights the change in method for determining the right limit for a road. Up until the 90s, the speed limits were set by a qualified engineer employed by each county. Dorset for many years was lucky in having the eminent Prof. J J Leeming as county engineer, who also wrote a book called 'Road Accidents: Prevent or Punish?', which I strongly recommend to the King’s Stag protesters. In brief, limits were set so that the sensible majority driving at the speed of their choice were not criminalised, however the fastest 15% (the 'mindless idiots') of drivers were. People respected the limits thus determined. I can quite imagine that lowering the limit through King’s Stag will only make the sensible majority give up trying to adhere to the limit, and thus it will be counterproductive (I know I pay more respect to a limit that seems appropriate - like the 40 limit through King’s Stag - than one that looks like the result of NIMBY campaigning). At which point, the speed camera vans will arrive and a load more sensible drivers will be criminalised to no good purpose.

Before the protesters point out that I have no right to comment as I don't live in King’s Stag on a busy B-road: I live in ****, which is on the A30, and I think the real problem is the same. Not speed of traffic, but volume of traffic, caused by drivers having to use inadequate roads through villages to travel long distances, because there is no alternative. High traffic volume has been shown to make people overestimate traffic speed.

Finally, however good PR it may be (I can't remember the last time some local protesters didn't wheel their children out), surely anyone with an iota of interest in road safety wouldn't encourage children to stand in the middle of a B-road. What if one of the 'mindless idiots' had come round the corner?

Yours

Johnnytheboy

So the problem is not people rightly doing 40 mph, but people who don't care what the limit is. So how is reducing the limit by 10 mph going to change anything? The mindless idiots' behaviour will continue, surely, whatever the signs say?

The locals are, of course, deceiving themselves that merely changing the numbers on a sign will make any significant difference to their quality of life.

And regarding your comment, weepej: it seems to me unlikely that someone who disobeys a 40 limit is going to obey a 30 limit in the same place, but I welcome debate on the subject.

So the problem is not people rightly doing 40 mph, but people who don't care what the limit is. So how is reducing the limit by 10 mph going to change anything? The mindless idiots' behaviour will continue, surely, whatever the signs say?

They probably won't, but they might not go as fast.

40 to your basic "I'M IN MY CAR!" nut probably says "pedestrains unlikely", 30 might say "pedestrains likely".

Nope, I'm sorry, I just don't buy that.

How many KSIs have there been in the village? How many were attributed to speed in excess of the limit?

And regarding your comment, weepej: it seems to me unlikely that someone who disobeys a 40 limit is going to obey a 30 limit in the same place, but I welcome debate on the subject.

They probably won't, but they might not go as fast.
40 to your basic "I'M IN MY CAR!" nut probably says "pedestrains unlikely", 30 might say "pedestrains likely".

Nope, I'm sorry, I just don't buy that.

Neither do I.

That's quite a big assertion to make.

That's actually a very good idea.

Wait, so the road is "quite wide" causing people to think it's safe to drive fast and there wont be pedestrians.

Interesting that you think a 30 sign won't at least slow down errant drivers but a pavement would!

Do people actually try to do 60 down little rural lanes just because they're NSL?

If you put up 30 signs on a motorway standard road, would people actually do anywhere near 30 in the absence of obvious enforcement