Safe Speed Forums

Late last year a male cyclist was hit and killed by a car on a road near where I live in Birmingham. It turns out the female driver had no insurance or licence. Yesterday she received a £950 fine and a 2.5 year driving ban with £150 costs.

Now, that does not seem quite right to me, it does not send out the right message. What good is a driving ban for someone who is already willing to drive illegally in the first place and total costs of £1100 barely covers the cost of two years insurance, and who knows how long she has not had that?

I do confess to live in an area with particularly bad driving. It is residential, there are kids and it is the summer holidays but despite the speed bumps and 20mph limit, I was stood outside my house early Wednesday afternoon and watched a BMW speed down the road at 60mph? And this is a common problem, hence the new speed bumps. And it’s an area where driving with no license or insurance is defiantly seen as OK by many people. So is the penalty dished out to the women above really going to send the right message to those drivers, are they going to change either their driving habits or regard to the law?

I think we shall continue to see reckless killer’s get off quite lightly!

Anyone got any ideas or thoughts?

Hello again

My first thought was more widspread use of those cameras, not speeding type, which recognises the reg and checks the legality of the vehicle.

When I was going on a Mag run http://www.mag-uk.org/index2.html earlier this year there was one checking every bike that went by. I later found out it was my work-friends husband who says that theirs is the only one in the West Midlands, of the portable type.

It was in a car and the rear window clearly displayed an LED message saying what it was doing.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

there are at least 3 issues here i think.....

i - uninsured & unlicensed drivers
ii - dangerous/reckless driving and penalties
iii - residential speed limit setting & enforcement

..and i dont think there is one single solution to tackle all of them.

As a cyclist myself, this subject is close to my heart and a constant worry when I'm out on the road on my bike.

At the risk of sounding like Mr U-Turn, if there is a genuine black spot then perhaps a speed camera may help but I agree that there is no cure-all as such.

I'm tempted to say one of those signs which simply flashes your speed would be enough but, although may help, it wouldn't stop the nutters who are familiar with the area.

Making the punishment fit the crime would be a good start I think.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

of course it was a bmw and of course it was doing 60mph over speed humps.
Ever notice how it's ALWAYs a BMW in these stories? Never a chavved-up corsa or something? Oh well, at least we don't need to struggle to work out who's telling porkies.

Hmmm, I assumed he said it as a statement of fact, an observation, not as a discriminatory remark. You don't own a BMW do you?

A Corsa wouldn't have the wheel base to clear both side of the bumps so it would usually be something big, IMHO.

But no matter; it was a serious question from which we can hopefully be of help.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I live in inner city Birmingham, Corsa’s are a white man's car round here you only get 'respect' if your drive far eastern car's or BMW's. A ford, Vauxhall, Volkswagen just don’t cut it! So it's supped up Civics’, and the real bane of my life, Subra Impreza's. The MBW in question was a rather nice, new and very shiny soft top 3 series with two Asian men behind the wheel. I was making a serious point and do not tell lies!

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The point of life is not to merely understand it, but to try and change it for the better.

maybe it was, but I'm sorry, I lost all interest as soon as he started spouting crap. No matter the type of car, does anyone really believe it was driving down a speed-humped street at 60mph? As for the brand mentioned, while I'm sure it makes some people feel better trying to evoke the "yeah, all those drivers are c*nts" feelings, it really doesn't help proceedings. Like I mentioned before, whenever we here these sort of fairy tales it's always an evil BMW driver that's playing the bad guy role, never any other marque. Why is that do you think? It's certainly not for lack of other examples.

My dad drives a BMW, so the make of car is not the issue!!!

It is not a fairy tale, as you so nicley put it. Why are you being so dismissive? I don't understand?

The fact is that because of the spacing of the speed bumps used in this area of Birmingham (they are of the three humps across the road variety) it is quite easy for wider spaced wheelbase cars to straddle the middle hump and just drive as normal, or like complete idiots! If it happened to have been a Ford Focus speeding on Wednesday, then that is the sort of car I would have mentioned, but it was not! The issue is the method of speed calming used; it is unfortunately un-effective for a wide number of vehicles.

I invite you to come round my house; I will make you a cup of tea and will shall sit on the wall out front and wait for a car to speed. Trust me, it does not take long and yes it might be a BMW, but it might not. But I suppose you won't take the offer up will you?

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The point of life is not to merely understand it, but to try and change it for the better.

How could you possibly know it's crap? I'm sorry johnsher, I always enjoy your posts but you made a wrong assertion and in doing so, trivialised the question.

I happen to know the area in question - it is like a different world out there.

Like many cities, Birmingham has 'pockets' which are just like being abroad somewhere. Not objecting to it, just a statement of fact.


I remember many years ago the police used to put census points once in a while at key places, like the end of a dual carriageway. They checked the vehicle and driver etc. I don't know if they're still done in other parts of the country but I haven't seen one for a very long time now; mid or late 1980's I would say. Another cost saving I suspect.

It's very inconvenient for the motorists of course but, I imagine, very effective at catching the wrong doers.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I don't know why it's so hard to believe there are many people out there who do theses foolish things.

There are many areas, like the one mentioned here, where it is an accident waiting to happen.

I hear much said about the importance of training but how do you educate, or rehabilitate, a moron? To my shame, I went ape-shit earlier this year at a guy who looked all of 17, with an identical IQ.

I was in a residential area on my motorbike. I stopped and looked properly both ways at a T junction before pulling out but afterwards, when I looked in my mirror, I could see some idiot looming up behind me at a ridiculous speed in a car who then sits on my arse.

There's no way this car was visible when I pulled out. I would have had to accelerate hard up about 70mph to keep this imbecile off my back, (not happening), so once I got to the correct safe speed I decided to slow down, stop, and give him a mouthful. I turned around and using my death stare swore at him thus: "It's fuckin idiots like you that kill people!". Forgive me but I see the results of this sort of driving in my job so you could say I'm a little over-sensitive.

He just looked at me, puts both hands up like a waitress with a tray in each hand, moves his stupid head from side to side and with a face like a smacked arse says "wot?". Before I stopped him, he was the big man in his car but now he was a little more humble.

The side road he came down was on a gradual bend with parked cars. I know it well. Just to paint the picture for you, it's a popular quiet and pleasant neighbourhood with a nice integration of old and young alike where children often cycle.

I was incensed to the point that if I hadn't got a friend on the back of my motorbike making it difficult for me to just jump off I would have gone over and punched his stupid face and happily taken the charge of ABH.

To conclude; I moved off and heard him wheel-spin off behind me down another side road flat-out. No-one's going to tell him what he can or cannot do, least of all me. He will most likely take someone's life before he gets prosecuted or banned. I know there are many out there of his ilk and there's absolutely nothing anyone can do about it

His kind are the Governments excuse/reason for speed cameras.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

i have to say the bit about the BMW doing 60 did discredit the OP a little but i tried to ignore it.

i'm sure what vist meant was that the vehicle was doing a speed obviously above the posted limit.... or that he estimates the speed to have been about 60mph.

unless he has his own speed gun... or know how far apart the speed bumps are and has a stop watch


to an extent this is why i tried to seperate the issues..... all the points are valid on their own but trying to put them altogether as in some way associated just doesn't work for me.

I'm vistaed's better half... I just wanted to respond to previous posts... Sorry, don't have my own login details though if all the posts are like this I'd rather not subscribe!
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Erm, guys, my partner has just come home really quite frustrated at being called a liar because of the remarks he made about the BMW.

For the record I was also at the front of the house (fixing a roof rack to my car and actually stood in the road) when the car came past. OK, 60mph is an estimate but having seen a few cars at various speeds over the years I can say that it's pretty accurate.

The point which was made (and seems to have been dismissed, which is really disappointing) is that my boyfriend and I live on a road where the Council has recently put in speed bumps. Because they are three humps to allow emergency vehicles access it is very easy for some vehicles to speed down them. It is a long, straight road and close to the Birmingham middle-ring road so it's a well worn track for boy racers (in all kinds of cars). It's also a road with plenty of kids playing football, riding bikes. See for yourselves, Eastwood Road in Brum.

So please, don't bring it down to the level of calling people liars. Several people have been knocked over and killed round here recently and as cyclists and pedestrians we're genuinely concerned. I would hope that we could work together to tackle the issue instead of name-call.

Rachel (not vistaed - sorry mods!)

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The point of life is not to merely understand it, but to try and change it for the better.

I don't see why vistaed's lying.

IMO I think Johnsher's being rather unreasonable, and I hope vistaed doesn't take his unwelcoming stance as extending to everyone with a member badge by their name.

I see what you mean.

[img][img]http://img237.imageshack.us/img237/9366/brumvo9.jpg[/img]
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A true story. This happened TODAY, literally just a few hours ago.

Going southbound on the M3 J2 about to enter the single lane 'contraflow' (I was passenger). Within the coned area (where L2 starts narrowing) two cars flew past forcing their way into the line up ahead at the last possible moment, the first car was ........ a BMW.

We were well into the coned area watching the shenanigans ahead when another BMW tried to force their way past us, at a fair old differential speed.
How late do you think she left it - well put it like this: we both had to brake to a halt to prevent an collision (and yes our car was well over to the left). It's extremely rare for me to visibly show my displeasure, alas today was another occurrence - and I wasn't even the driver!

It is rather unfortunate that BMW drivers do seem to be rather over-represented when it comes to aggressive driving, at least on motorways anyway.

Hi Rachel.

Please could you convey our apologies to vistaed.

It is all too easy for two strangers, communicating through a keyboard, to disbelieve or misunderstand and subsequently let things escalate; sometimes these things happen despite the best intentions. It is best to treat these as if you are behind the wheel (or handlebars): just let it bounce off and continue onward to your goal trying not to get caught up in an unnecessary and potentially destructive argument.

I sure hope this doesn’t deter him – and you – from wanting to peruse through the website and contributing to the forums.

It sounds like your area has a problem with rogue and nutter drivers. Part of the Safespeed campaign is to change the mindset of these people (or get them off the road) so I would like to think that we could ultimately be of help to you.

Steve
(moderator)

If I read correctly these are the speed CUSHIONS or PILLOWS, not the humps which stretch kerb to kerb.
Vistaed is correct - a Corsa will catch one wheel on it - a larger car can straddle and only make contact with the outer edges.



I have taken on board what has been said here - if I see a BMW driver acting like a moron, I'll say it was a Skoda!

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

but why am i reading members who support the safe speed campaign suggesting cameras or flashing signs would be of help... I thought the general agreement was that these don't improve road safety....

I do think that flashing signs may be of significant help in some 'special places' - usually places where there might be hidden or non-obvious local hazards. Using them as a speed limit reminder just dilute any benefit.

We also have to recognise that some road users DO use speed unwisely or carelessly (the 'thrill seekers' and the inexperienced, mostly). Speed limits and cameras might even help these folk on occasion; but the Safe Speed case is that the negative side effects of cameras and speed limit obsessions on the responsible majority is bad enough to offset any possible benefit ten times over (at the VERY least).

It's not that cameras 'don't work' (although mostly they don't) - it's that from a system-wide, viewpoint they make matters worse.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety