Safe Speed Forums

Yesterday I was coming back from work, down the A41 in London. As I never like to ride next to or in the blind spot of large vehicles, I nailed it past this lorry that was in the lane to my left and then noticed I was on top of a scamera. I was going at about 63mph, I thought the speed limit was 40 (it was actually 50) so naturally grabbed the brakes. Slowed down in time, only for the car behind to swerve past me and narrowly miss my right foot. Which surprised me actually because I'd really nailed it away from the lights and I hadn't expected the following traffic to catch up that quickly.
Moral of the story: speed cameras suck, and in this instance they tried to punish me for performing a safe and sensible maneuvre..

No, moral of the story - your driving sucks.

That's not an appropriate response for a new user. Respect the 'L plate'.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

From the description (passed near your right foot), you were on a bike right?

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

L plate or not, I would in this instance have to agree with the thoughts of mpaton2004.

If the guy was travelling at such a speed as to actually GET himself into the HGV blind-spot, surely common sense would dictate that lifting of the right foot rather than depressing it would be the manoeuvre of choice in order to reinstate a sensible distance...Simply "nailing it" isn't IMHO the mark of a good driver who has admitted to knowing the road (travelling home from work) and admitted not paying attention on previous journeys to what speed limit was in force ( I thought the speed limit was 40 (it was actually 50)) ...

The phrase "really nailed it away from the lights" invokes visions of a chav in a tarted up 'bargain basement' fiesta complete with alloys, arch extensions rear spoiler and front fog light rail burning rubber as soon as the amber light shows.

Yes, I was on a bike.

Why would I hang back behind a lorry on a six-lane dual carriageway when I can pass it in a couple of seconds, and when the overtaking lanes are supposed to be used for overtaking?
I wasn't following it, I was in the lane adjacent to it. Most people pay no attention to traffic in the other lanes, I however choose not to ride next to large vehicles or vehicles likely to be driven by idiots and so I hang back, wait for a safe gap in front and then quickly accelerate past in order to avoid any danger that might occur. It saved my skin the other week, when a car swerved into my lane right in front of me without looking or indicating on the dual carriageway passing Hyde Park Corner. I had to swerve into the rightmost lane which was fortunately empty in order to avoid a collision, but if I had left no gap at all I would have been knocked off without a doubt.



No, I ride a bike that can leave a Porsche 911 for dust. Nailing it away from the lights goes with the territory, especially when embittered car drivers would like to try and dangerously get in front because they don't like the fact I don't have to wait in the queue.
If you think there's a problem with making use of the extreme acceleration available on two wheels, you've probably never ridden a bike. There's nothing wrong with my use of speed.

In fact ironically I was taught to get up to speed quickly on my test. If I could wind the throttle right back and get there quickly without exceeding the speed limit, that's a good thing.

But by your own admission you didn't do that did you? You DID exceed the speed limit...on a road you must regularly travel to go to and from work.
You DID NOT pay enough attention to the road or the conditions or (it would seem) your rear view mirrors otherwise you would have KNOWN what the limit was and be aware of any traffic that had managed to keep up with you.

I witnessed a similar 'stunt' to yours only last week on the A19 heading towards York ...a bike thought he would use his superior torque and 'nailed it' passed slower traffic right into the back of another vehicle waiting to turn right! He obviously also thought like you... "wait for a safe gap in front and then quickly accelerate past in order to avoid any danger that might occur" and failed to see the vehicle he eventually collided with....except in the crash I witnessed, that biker wasn't as lucky as you seem to have been.

I'm sorry that some others seem to be giving you a hard time. As it happens I don't agree with their judgements. It's frequently safe and sensible to 'nail it' to clear a danger zone.

I've had a roughly similar nasty experience with a speed camera myself. In my case I'm driving south on the A9 in Scotland. It's single carriageway. Ahead is a heavy. I follow the heavy around a left hand bend, well positioned for the nearside sweeping view. Oncoming is clear, and I move to the right for a good view prior to overtaking. All clear and I 'nail it'. As I'm level with the cab of the heavy I see a fixed speed camera ahead on the left. It's obvious that if I continue overtaking I'll risk setting the bloody thing off. So I'm on the wrong side of the road braking alongside another vehicle. This is potentially a nasty situation to be in, but I'm lucky. There's nothing oncoming and nothing behind.

The problem for me in this situation is that the camera has been behind the truck for the lion's share of the looking and planning phase. I've had no opportunity to observe it despite the fact that I have used all the standard and advanced planning and observation techniques.

It's probably the closest I've come to being caught by a camera. If my overtake had been judged to pass before an oncomer, and it might have been, I may not have had the option of braking alongside the truck.

So I agree with you - for that reason - and dozens more - speed cameras suck.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Safespeed, of course you agree with his point of view...you couldn't realistically do otherwise and still maintain some credibility on your own anti speed camera website could you now?

Of course I could disagree. Credibility comes from being accurate, 'well thought out' and consistent.

Agreeing with people 'at random' would blow the consistency and the credibility.

I like new users to be made welcome, but that doesn't mean that I will compromise my view. See for example this thread: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14779

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Of course you won't 'compromise your view" ...
Up to date you have consistently and in well thought out manner advocated for the demise of speed cameras and re-asserted that viewpoint whenever anyone seemed to not agree with it...I wouldn't expect you to change or compromise your view at all.

In my view (from what has been written) the guys driving/riding sucks not the speed camera.

So what if I exceeded the speed limit? That stretch of road goes from 40 to 50 to 40 like a yoyo, what the speed limit is is the last thing on my mind because it isn't important unless I chance upon a scamera - which, in this case, was hidden from view by the lorry.
I check my mirrors fairly regularly, and last time I checked there was nothing in them. It's not as simple checking mirrors on a bike either, I have to physically move an arm out of the way and move my head to see clearly in them.



Well, there wasn't a safe gap then, was there?
Why was I "lucky" in not colliding with anything by going at 60ish mph on a clear dual carriageway? I make sure I can always stop in the distance I can see to be clear, so I'm not going to plough into the back of anyone by going too quickly any time soon.

I've never been involved in an accident, but I've had plenty of near misses and all but one of them has been caused by car drivers (apart from the aforementioned incident with the speed camera). I cruise at up to 130mph on the motorway when it's safe to do so and I've never put myself or anyone else in danger by doing so - although I usually stay at around the 100 mark max because it gets physically exhausting at those speeds due to the windblast.
Bikes can accelerate and brake a hell of a lot quicker than cars can, also - and they're much more agile.
Just today I had some moron in an SUV pull right out on me despite repeated bashing of the horn. His excuse when I knocked on his window at the lights? "Someone gave me a chance so I took it".
The only near miss caused by me was due to misdirected attention...I was filtering through near-gridlock and concentrating so intensely on what the traffic was doing I went straight across a junction obscured by all the cars and nearly got sideswiped as a result. I haven't made that mistake again.
Bottom line - high speed and fast acceleration does not necessarily equal danger. In fact the most dangerous thing I could do after filtering to the front of the queue is to get away from the lights slowly. I have no desire to be squashed between two metal cages.

Hey, not your fault.



Nasty...
I'd considered this possibility previously - cameras make overtaking very dangerous or prevent it altogether. Now I can say I've experienced it myself.
Effectively they disrupt the normal flow of the traffic - on some stretches of the A41 round Hendon way the traffic flows at a steady 60-70mph and then slows to 40 or 50 for the camera before resuming its normal speed. Isn't it obvious here that the camera is just a government-approved hazard?

Actually I think my riding is pretty good, considering I've only been riding two months and have never driven a car either. I try to adhere to advanced riding principles rather than ones such as make sure you always stick to the speed limit and don't twist the throttle too far back, so when you do fuck up you won't die in quite such a horrific manner.
I never ride by the speedo, I always watch my following distances and try to take into account everything that's happening around me.

You don't seem to be getting my point do you?
You were on a road you know well where there is a static speed camera that you must have passed...how many times?...AND you still gun it at a speed that would activate it....and then have the brass face to blame it for your near accident when you had to brake heavily to avoid it catching you?...
In my book that is plain and simple bad driving/riding.

I would say three things. First you really ought to know the speed limit you are riding in. I know its a challenge with these idiotic 40/50/nsl lottery but if you are missing speed limit changes what other road signs, and worse, hazards are you missing.

Second: Never ever be afraid to use full beans on a bike. You have two advantages; your speed and relative maneuverability. You can translate these advantages into better road position and thus better vision and planning. You have a lot of disadvantages too, first all the lunatics in cars trying to kill you (and personally i would assume every car driver, and i count taxis twice as bad, wants me dead; your outlook is up to you but ride 10 years in London and then we can talk some more ). The other key disadvantage is no metal cage to save you when there is an inevitable cock up, you have to ride in such a way to save yourself.

Third: Car drivers have little appreciation for the relative merits of other vehicles. They will not see your massive advantage in acceleration. For example when you take a bike sized gap on a roundabout a serious risk is a car driver pulling out in front of you from the next entrance. This happens either because the driver of the car misses you (smidsy/a pillar/ gps in the way) or because they simply do not realise you have 0-60 in under three seconds available to you. Even here where you might expect a broader appreciation of bikes i would not bank on it.

BTW welcome, take care and what bike do you have? I have a GSXR600, a Sprint 1050 ABS and have serious Daytone 675 lust.......

I stay on the A41 for 12 miles and until it hits Finchley Road it all looks pretty samey. How am I supposed to remember exactly where two cameras are after commuting on it for a couple of weeks?
Why shouldn't I exceed the speed limit to get out of the danger zone of a massive great articulated lorry? To me, that's just common sense.
Not to mention that in the event of a rear end shunt, the person who runs into the back of you is always to blame. Evidently the driver behind me was following far too closely as he should not have had to swerve to avoid me. I could have slowed down over twice as quickly if I needed to, probably more.
The only blame that can realistically be placed on me is for not memorising the location of the scamera, and that's another issue in itself which proves that speed cameras are hazards.

I dont want to be down on you too much but it doesnt matter whose fault it is its going to be you that gets splattered. If somebody is too close then use the 'i want to be somewhere else lever' under your right hand or dink left and let the nutter past.

That's true enough.



I agree. I'm not a car, and I'm not going to behave like a car. Although I stop short of filtering between 50mph traffic as many of my fellow commuters seem to enjoy doing.
I've come to expect people to pull out on me now. I don't mean in the sense that I am aware it might happen and I make a conscious effort to expect it - I'm genuinely surprised when I'm not pulled out on.
One of the things I've tried and that seems to work is weaving from side to side as I approach a junction. I've never been pulled out on whilst weaving.
Drivers in London are a different breed I have to say...there seems to be a total disregard for safe following distances, indicating, or any of the usual courtesies. And those roundabouts with lane markings and traffic lights are a bastard, nobody knows where the hell they're going, nobody indicates and they just encourage dangerous lane-changing. Special award goes to the roundabout near Hyde Park where the lane markings for Victoria don't match up and if you follow the right-most Victoria lane round you end up heading for the Knightsbridge exit. Cue lots of last-minute, ill-considered lane changes.



Yep. Agreed.



Thanks. I have a '99 Fazer 600...nice bike but drinks fuel at a shocking rate.
Wouldn't mind seeing how it compares to the sports 600s, but it doesn't seem that much more torquey than the CB500 I rode for my DAS.