Safe Speed Forums

Has anyone realised that whatever the speed limit the amber period of traffic lights is always the same - 3 seconds?

It takes 50% longer to stop from 40mph than it does from 30mph. So the faster the speed limit, the more difficult it is to stop before the red light. The DofT say they take care of this and provide safety by increasing the all red period of the lights. This means they expect people to misjudge and pass on red. But then the police put camers there and fine drivers.

This is unreasonable and unfair. Does anyone know if this has been tested in court?

The answer is not to approach a green traffic light so fast to cause you to travel over the line under emergency braking if the light did change.

We are aware. See for example:

http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewt ... 5662#95662
and
http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=8858

I don't really agree that a 3 second amber is a problem up to roads. Above that, I think it's dangerous.

However, I would NOT vary the length of the amber. Drivers need to be able to judge if they have time to stop or not and if the amber varies, they cannot.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I rather get the impression watching drivers around these parts that what they are really doing is judging whether they have time to accelerate through on the amber/red before the traffic is released from the other direction.
And thats not being flippant, I believe this is increasingly the case.

Are we taking into account lorries and bicycles?

I once braked extra hard at a junction with a red light camera on seein amber. A car whizzed passed in the other lane, evidently just making it before the camera was armed. Thank goodness the car wasn't in my lane.

I got stuck at a camera controlled light at St David's in Swansea on Friday for nearly 30 minutes after the light jammed on red.
I had to drive up the kerb to get round the sensors eventually. I'd wager money on the camera still working even though the lights were jammed...

Anyway,

3 seconds amber in a 40/50/60 limit is far too short.

In a truck you have to pass through at <20mph to stop in time.
At 4 seconds we'd not end up with huge queues behind us as we wouldn't have to lose over half our speed before going through the lights in order to make sure we can stop.

Some places (the last bit of dual carriageway on the A491 towards the M5 for example) have the lights on a downhill stretch in a 50 limit and they seem to be quite economical with the 3 seconds.The length of the green seems to vary randomly too. I've run the lights there on several occasions as there simply isn't enough time to brake with a load on-even from 20mph in a (it's a 50 limit!)

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Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

If it's not 3 seconds it's not a set of traffic lights.

Or at least I think that's the case. Maybe someone has a link to the legal definition...

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Andrew.

Yes. This is a subtle 'attitude' error'. We discussed something very similar before: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=379

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Just like speed cameras some are an empty box. A mate is a Met RTA investigator and in one case - too long for the whole appalling story - the box was empty and so didn't catch white van man killing a woman on a pelican crossing it covered. He got told they only go operational if there's a KSI!!

I really don't like TL on roads above 40mph for the reasons discussed but I wouldn't have a problem with every set of lights having cameras. Gone are the days of amber gamblers, people just run reds and it seems to be getting worse.

Barkstar

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The difference between intelligence and stupidity is that intelligence has limits.

Are they causing accidents?
Councils are deliberately increasing the 'intergreen' time thinking that they will make the junctions safer (or to increase congestion, or both) which is having the side effect of people knowing they can get through the red light in time.

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Andrew.

There are just too many TLs. Late at night, I regularly "run the red" on the roundabout coming in to Telford from J6 of the M54. Why should I stop? There's nothing coming, and I can see that clearly. No cameras either - but if there were, it would take less time to stop and affix an opaque adhesive patch over the lens, then jump back in the car and continue through the red while the camera took blank pictures than it would take to sit and wait for the green.

This particular roundabout did not even have lights until, oh, 6 months or so ago? I reckon Telford and Wrekin Council, following their political masters' anti-car policy. decided to create some congestion of their own. In the daytime, it's a nightmare.

Ditto Fleets Bridge and Hunger Hill. Fleets Bridge used to be part time, now they are full time and aren't really needed most of the time. But hey, congestion is the enemy and people are finding ways around it.

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Andrew.

hmmm looks to me like you're condoning red light jumping......

No because the traffic starting off from the other direction doesn't just drive into the path of a 'jumper' even though the latter may be breaking the law. Its just become another 'stupid driving' hazard to be aware of.



Because, like it or not, its the law that you stop at a red light, its the expected behaviour. The Ketley Brook roundabout to which we are both referring is a complete mess and needs sorting, but ignoring the red light isn't the answer.

I've noticed that traffic flows more freely when traffic lights are faulty.

Perhaps we should consider replacing some of them with roundabouts. Only knowing our local council, they'd then put lights on the roundabout (instead of a simple yellow box).

J10 of the M60, lights on, 24/7. 3AM, and you're stopped at a red light for......what?

Our councils arent working from the same sheet of sensible options that the rest of us are.
Its in their interests to create conflict, confusion and congestion cos its in their plan and it gains support for measures like con charging.
They create the problem then propose a "solution" to it thats already on the burner.
When are people going to wake up to all of whats about to hit them?

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"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

Thats exactly what happened at the Ketley Brook roundabout I'm on about above. It used to flow nicely in all directions, now its a complete buggers muddle with traffic being forced to wait at red lights when there's nothing coming creating tailbacks and delays where there were none before.
I wrote to the council asking for an explanation and got a flim-flam answer about it being their second worst site for small accidents in the area. By small accidents they were referring to 'nerfs' where drive A decides at the last minute not to emerge onto the roundabout whilst driver B behind has stopped looking ahead and is concentrating on the roundabout and runs into the back of driver A.

The traffic lights south of Commercial road Southsea (Portsmouth) have been replaced by zebra crossings and a roundabout. It is soooo much better for everyone. Now there are rarely any queues (it was quite bad before, phasings were really nasty) yet pedestrians automatically have right of way!

Ignoring red traffic lights is basically the same offence as exceeding a speed limit.
Both have to demand respect in order to be respected.


Although it is perfectly legal to drive through a red light in certain situations (ambulance purposes/etc.), so you should be checking anyway.

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Andrew.

I suspect the tolerance level of a good number of drivers is much lower than mine is then. Too many traffic lights is damned annoying, but has not yet achieved 'disrespect' status on my moral barometer.



Of course and the ambulance driver will be proceeding with due caution as well. As I said, nobody in their right mind wants to cause a crash just because its their right of way and we should all be happy to give way to an ambulance. But by the same token we shouldn't expect to have to compromise our right of way just because some jerk is too impatient to wait, thats why there's a light there in the first place.