Safe Speed Forums

I had my first experience of driving with GPS this weekend and to be honest im not so sure they are a good idea. I was using a Road Angel Navigator 6000 (I think) and driving my girlfriends car. Im familiar with her car but dont drive it often so that was taking up some of my concentration while i tuned in to her car.

Observations:
The Road Angel seems to be an 'all-in-one' type arrangement that gets you where you want to go and also tells you the current speed limit and potential camera sites. First thing I noticed was that I had a big white square in my peripheral vision that kept drawing my eye to it rather than leaving it looking at the road. No problem with that, I just turned the backlights right down.

Speed Limits:
I noticed was that it was adamant that the A303 was a 30mph limit! I was in the Yeovil sector and that whole stretch is NSL and D/C so definately not a 30 zone. Despite me knowing the limits in the area (I drive round there often enough) every time it started pinging at me I would hesitate on the throttle. Does this phenomenon occur to other people too? I know my gf who has only just passed her test is going to struggle with this and she is a nervous enough driver as it is.

Safety Camera Locations:
I know where the fixed cameras are in the area and drive accordingly but I was absolutely astonished about the number of 'Safety Van' warnings it was giving. As soon as one of these occured I was on the look-out not for the vans, but where they would likely park. Several of these marked locations didnt have anywhere obvious (and safe) where you could park a van so are these phantom sites or will the SCPs just park wherever they like and sod the safety aspect? (Think I know the answer tothat one already...)

Directions:
I would get instructions on what exit to take off a roundabout at 1 mile, 1/2 mile and 1/4 mile but with all the other things to look at and think about quite often I would completely forget the instruction she had given me. When I actually got to the roundabout I was having to look at the GPS unit and 'read' the symbols displayed so I knew where to go. Thats ok until you find you are in the wrong lane as you join the roundabout!

Im worried about how well my girlfriend will cope, she has only been driving for about 3 months now and has only put 500 miles on her car in this time. The GPS was definately taking some of my concentration up at times, normally when it could be better employed dodging stealth pedestrians and reading road signs. Maybe a checkride with her driving under GPS instructions is in order to see how much it does affect her.

Almost without exception everybody here says watching the road rather than the speedo is a good idea. Does this same principle not apply to GPS systems as well. It may be just that ive never had the pleasure before and if I use it often enough it will become second nature and not so distracting.

Anybody else noticed similar (or different) effects GPS can have on your driving habits and skills?

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The police ARE the law, not ABOVE it!!!

I have a TomTom Go (had it since they first came out) - I find it very useful. The thing is to use it to the bare minimum necessary.

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I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools

That's why the police publish where the vans are going to be. They aren't there of course, but enough people driving use satnav and hence drive slowly....thus slowing everyone else down. The benefits of a free press !

I've been using satnav for a little over 3 years now, starting with the 1997-vintage factory fit system (tiny screen with basic direction graphics, no map display, slow to recalculate routes and provide the next instruction in complex junctions) in my old Omega. Having now part-ex'd that for a newer Omega without a factory system (not through choice, there just aren't that many around in the second-hand market and I needed to get shot of the old one sooner rather than later...), one of the first things I bought for the car was a TomTom 510. So you can take it as read I'm a fan of the things...




Was this in daylight or nighttime? The TomToms have a night display mode, which renders everything in more subdued tones against a dark background - if the Road Angel has a similar mode it may be more effective than just adjusting the brightness.




As with everything a satnav system tells you, you should only ever take it as a reasonably accurate indication of the truth, never as fact. If you KNOW the system is saying something which doesn't fit with reality (whether it's a speed limit, location of the nearest garage, or which way to turn at the next junction) then common sense should override any desire to obey the machine...

FWIW, I've noticed the TomTom is a little bit iffy on showing the correct limit for some stretches of road, and quite a few roads don't have any limit listed, so presumably there's a generic problem across all satnav suppliers with keeping the limit database updated.




Blimey, that's a bit excessive. Both the old Vauxhall (Philips/VDO Dayton) system and the TomTom tend to restrict the detailed instructions until you get within about half a mile, and repeat them one last time within a couple of hundred yards - beyond half a mile or so they just give you a brief heads-up comment without going into the fine details. Isn't there a setting you can change to adjust the distances at which it gives you the instructions?




Absolutely - given the choice between looking at the satnav screen or looking at the world outside, look outside... But as with speedo/instrument checks, you can build a quick glance at the satnav screen into your in-cabin scan routine, taking your eyes off the road briefly as and when you've determined it's least unsafe to do so. And once you get used to the vocal prompts, you should find yourself needing to check the screen less often.

Also bear in mind that, if you're approaching a complex and unfamiliar junction (or even one you are familiar with, but not from this particular direction), it could be argued that it's safer to spend a couple of seconds checking out the junction layout onscreen before you reach it, rather than trying to pick your way through it sight unseen, relying on the generosity of other road users in giving you the space and time to decipher the layout once you're actually in it.



Quite possibly. It's like anything new, you start off fumbling around trying to use it, then things start to click into place and sooner or later you find yourself using it without giving it a second thought.

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Chris

I think I should clarify that the GPS is not mine and not installed in my car. This is for the girlfriend to help her with her driving. I can see the benefit of it warning about 'safety cameras' but im paranoid enough as it is. Having somebody tell me every few minutes there is another potential trap looming may well turn me into a fully paid up member of the '40 everywhere' club.

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The police ARE the law, not ABOVE it!!!

I set my Road Angel to only tell me about FIXED camera locations. In Victoria there are NO warnings about cameras and the fixed cameras are virtually impossible to spot.

The roadside traps are easier to spot and so rather than have warning after warning I only want to know about the ones that are definitely there.

I think part of your problem is driving a "new" car and having to get used to too many things as once. I never found the instructions a problem because I did not have other distractions making it hard to remember the last instructions.

Now that I am used to it, getting used to a "new" car would not interfere with the Road Angel as I can respond to it automatically now.

Give it some time and I'm sure you will become a big fan...

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

From what you've said about your g/f I would take it out of the car until she's a bit more confident. She needs to learn how to drive before she becomes reliant on gadgets.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Im not entirely new to the car, ive driven it several times before and understand it well enough. Still takes me a few miles to get the feel of the clutch and brakes though and that was what I was doing initially. Ive probably put as many miles on it as she has to be honest.
As for Sixy's suggestion, sounds like a good one to me. Not sure her parents (who brought the GPS for her) would agree though. I find it hard enough to get her to drive at the best of times and taking away something that is supposed to make driving easier isnt going to encourage her to drive and gain experience.
Twister, the first drive was in daylight and even then it was quite obtrusive and always hovvering in my lower left quadrant. Nighttime i annoyed me so much I stopped and turned it down to a level I felt was much less annoying.



hmmm, will reserve judgement on that until I get some more experience with it. Call me old fashioned but I like a big road map and a bit of intuitive direction finding to get me where im going.

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The police ARE the law, not ABOVE it!!!

I think with these auto-routing and voice navigation systems you have to learn what to ignore. I have only encountered one, and its directions of how to attack a roundabout were... less than useful.

I've used a GPS device with a map and an arrow showing where you are, and that was great while it worked. No routing or voice prompts though!

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Andrew.

My opinion.

You need to drive a few routes you know with the GPS directing you to get used to it's instructions.

As for a novice driver using one, I wouldn't have it on all the time. I would suggest she gets experience of the unit from the passenger seat.

Hmm...a tricky one. IMO a GPS doesn't make driving easier, it only makes navigation easier. If she gets into the mindset that she NEEDS technology in the car to be able to drive then she's on a very slippery slope indeeed. She needs to gain confidence in her own ability to observe signage etc before anything else. Unless she's driving on unfamiliar routes all the time then would she really need a GPS?

As for her parents? That really IS a tricky one and I don't really know what to suggest there...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

maybe you should 'evaluate' it for a few months before letting her have it

with all their good intentions.. the problem is the parents haven't bought her just a sat-nav system. the speed limit & camera warnings are an extra unecessary distraction.

sat nav is just about bearable and as you experienced i find i often tune it out so quickly ive forgotten what it said when i get to the junction! clearly not that distracting then!

what really bugs me is people fiddling with them whilst driving.

Sounds like the road angel navigator is pretty crap as both a satnav and a camera warning system, thanks for the headsup as I was almost going to suggest that my GF get one.

I'll stick to my combination of Origin B2 with the serial output fed to a Car PC running Destinator thanks Two separate tools each of which does one job in the best manner possible. (Normal people would probably want the B2 to feed a PDA running TomTom or Medion or whatever)

Hi,

Sorry to post on an old topic, but thought you might find an article from this weeks local paper interesting. A woman (age 52) turned right onto the railway line at a level crossing when her sat nav told her to!

British Transport Police: ''At the moment we are trying to establish whether the fault lies with the satellite navigation system, the woman or a mixture of both." Heh???

We have had elderly drivers turning right onto the very busy level crossing at Beddingham, thinking it was a cross roads - but this latest one involves a relatively young driver at 52. Luckily there was no collision but it did cause significant inconvenience because she managed to block both East and Westbound railway lines!

Full article here:
http://www.eastbournetoday.co.uk/ViewAr ... ID=1982358

Welcome aboard johnsussex!

As far as I'm concerned you can't blame the technology. SHE drove onto the railway lines, not the GPS. Its not an autopilot and does not remove the need to look and think for one's self.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

This reminds me of the American court case where a woman sued for damages when she crashed her Winnebago after setting the cruise control and retiring to the back to make a cup of tea. The manufacturers have now added a warning to the handbook!

When I was at school, myself and others were regularly informed that "Tom told me to do it" is not a valid defence. This applies equally to TomTom.

Anyone here know the junction, is there a right turn immediately after the level crossing? Even if there isn't and the thing was blatantly wrong (I understand the old version of Destinator had a reputation for mistaking rivers for roads) a railway line is bloody obvious as it has these long shiny metal things called rails that reflect in your headlights.

I give up. If you know someone with no common sense, please ensure they they don't buy a satnav.. or drive a car for that matter.

Google still only has low-res coverage of that part of the UK, so it's over to Microsoft to provide the goodies this time - Virtual Earth birds-eye view. Going on the article description of her journey, she'd be driving towards the level crossing from the left of this picture, taking the right-hand bend at the right of picture to follow the coastline. The distance between the crossing and the bend looks to be around 400 feet, which ought to be far enough for a half-decent satnav system not to suggest an immediate turn unless she was driving bloody fast or the GPS fix was out by a fair bit...


...none of which excuses the fact that the final decision to make the turn, and then the physical act of actually making the car turn right, were entirely under the control of the driver. As I said right at the start of this topic, common sense should override the sat nav if you think it's telling you something to do something at odds with reality.

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Chris

I guess this could be a case of defective eye sight, which would be worse at night. It was dark according to the article. A combination of being confused by the sat nav instructions and not being able to see properly may have caused her to drive onto the line thinking it was a turn. This isn't an excuse - whether she couldn't see or was lacking in grey matter, it was still 100% driver error.

ps. Twister, maybe I'll have a look next time I'm passing, it's only just round the corner from me.