Safe Speed Forums

I am part way through the IAM process and looking to take a test soon.

For several tedious and boring reasons, I am switching from a manual to an automatic.

I know at least one of the members here either gained, or is working towards observer status, and would appreciate thoughts on the following question.

When a pause becomes a stop (e.g traffic lights) you would apply the handbrake in a manual car, does the same apply in an automatic ?

For some reason at the moment I don't see why it should.

Regards

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Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways - Beer in one hand - kebab in the other - body thoroughly worn out, screaming WOO HOO What a Ride

normal people (at least those who aren't British) wouldn't apply the handbrake in a manual either unless on a hill. Quite what purpose it serves is anyone's guess.

This has been discussed at length on here before and it may be helpful to have a search.

The general feeling seems to be that you should apply the handbrake if only to let your brake lights go off to the benefit of the car behind. Most feel that it is not necessary to put it in N.

Of course, you might not necessarily agree with this and after the IAM test just do what everyone else does and hold on the footbrake.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

There is a school of thought that the brake lights serve a usefull purpose with no vehicle behind - to give any approaching vehicle advanced warning of the fact that you are stopped/braking.

The purpose of using a handbrake when stopped (at a junction at least) is that if hit from behind it will prevent your vehicle from behind pushed forward into moving traffic.

In an automatic it can be tricky because the creep effect is often strong enough to overcome the handbrake.

Gareth

Use the brakes to warn anybody behind you that you've stopped. Keep the gearbox in D, it does no harm whatsoever and theres less wear and tear than going into N.

If dark, don't blind the person behind you. Use the handbrake. You should also use it if you've been using the brakes heavily, ie descending steep hills - keep the pads off the discs when they're roasting hot!

I always use the handbrake (footbrake in my car, its on a pedal). You can also make a faster getaway from the lights.

as do your normal brakes...

But at least , with the footbrake you can flash it on /off to draw attention to you as a car approaches from brehind and once it has stopped , you can revert to handbrake , unless you decide to stop with a gap in front deciding that yopu need the extra space in case the one behind is hit.

But if hit from behind your foot would probably lift off the brake pedal.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

BUT - AS I POINTED OUT, IF WATCHING MIRROR - YOU CAN FLASH LIGHTS TO DRAW ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT YOu ARE STOPPED ( sorry to shout - thought point had been missed)
(Oh - try it - if stopped , would your handbrake stop you rollinfg forward into traffic ahead - in the days of no servo --perhaps , nowadays ---would you bet your life on it )--

and have you ever seen that happen? I never have (and like I said most people o/s don't use the handbrake so it's not because of that).


if you're not on a hill (where I said you would use a handbrake anyway) you can still do that.

It seems that automatics are just too complicated. Why bother?

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Andrew.

Manuals are welcomed, SMG's are tolerated and Automatics are BANNED from my driveway....

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Ross

Yes I'm a hoon, but only on the track!!!!

IF I was hit from behind in stationary traffic, I would like the benefit of 3 crumple zones, not just my rear one, so it's handbrake for me every time. I still flash my brake lights with the pedal

the problem with a handbrake is that it may not stop an auto from creeping forward. The torque converter will always bias the driveline to go forward to help on hill starts. If you handbrake is on and for any reason the engine "coughs" the car will leap forward. I think you should have your food on the foot brake to stop you from touching the throttle.

Some cars now have "automtic" hand brakes anyway that engage when the car is stationary

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Speed camera policy Kills

I still maintain that if the handbrake on an Auto can't hold the car still against the torque convertor then it isn't fit for purpose.

Its handbrake all the way for me.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Ditto.

Similarly, I've yet to see a valid argument against putting the damned thing into neutral if you have to wait at the lights, like I do in my manual!

So far the excuses I've heard are:

1. De-selecting and re-selecting Drive wears the box out. Frankly I don't believe this is true, but even if this does make a significant reduction in gearbox life then so what! Can I claim that tailgating the car in front is ok because it causes brake wear to slow down?

2. Selecting neutral causes the reversing lights to flash in the eyes of the car behind. Is this actually true? All the autos I've ever been in have had the arrangement P-R-N-D-3-2-1 on the lever, so to go from D to N is just a single click then back again, it doesn't go through reverse to get there. I strongly suspect that the proponents of this theory are really meaning that it flashes the brake lights when you move the lever to the "P" (park) position, which is usually true.

3. I can't be arsed to move the lever when I stop - to hell with the cars behind, let 'em be dazzled. Well ok, no-one's actually said this, but I suspect that's what they really mean...

My view is that the correct procedure is exactly the same as what I do with my manual, ie stop at lights, apply handbrake, select neutral; when lights change engage gear and release handbrake as I drive off.

The notion that the handbrake won't hold an auto from "creeping" is also a red herring. If you are stopped at the lights it should be in neutral for safety's sake. As has been mentioned earlier, if some clown runs into you violently from behind who knows what you are going to do with the pedals? Imagine what would happen if you were "diligently" holding the car back in "Drive" with the footbrake but the impact caused your foot to slip across onto the throttle?

Yes this is only a one in a thousand chance, but to me road safety is all about eliminating the one in a thousand chances, as accidents actually happen quite rarely in general.

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Does anyone know the relative accident statistics between auto and manual cars? Are autos inherently more hazardous because of the built-in creep factor?

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I don't have a *vast* experience of automatics but I've driven half a dozen or so, and in every one I've driven so far the hand brake has had ample power to prevent the the car from creeping forwards. Far from leaping forwards if the engine coughs, I think if the handbrake is working properly applied properly it would be difficult or impossible to move the car even if you floored the throttle.

Every car that is stopped in traffic *should* have the handbrake applied, otherwise a simple fender-bender will damage lots of cars due to the domino effect. If your car was pushed forward into the car in front and damaged it, and your handbrake was off, you could be accused of contributing to the accident. The handrake doesn't mean you can't be pushed forward if you're hit hard enough, but every bit of momentum that the handbrake absorbs is that bit less transferred to the car in front.

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Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

If your parking brake won't stop the car creeping in an automatic, then the brake is faulty and needs repair.

Selecting neutral at lights wears the gearbox out. Considering the cost of a gearbox recon or a new one on an automatic....... A manual gearbox is a much simpler machine than an automatic.