Safe Speed Forums

isn't it?


it's not the norm and the law is 'keep left unless overtaking'.

why should it wind you up?
it's not me diving into L3 and causing the queue.

Now I've seen it all - the epitome of outrageous tailgating. I have just been tailgated by, and you'll hardly believe this, a kid on a motorised scooter. I don't mean a moped type scooter, but one of those bits of shelving with a wheel at each end, a vestigial handlebar on a length of plumbing and a two stroke motor off a hedge trimmer on the back. Very built up area with lots of little side roads and school chucking out time, so I'm taking it very easy - 10-15 round a corner with parked cars about. And this wannabee hospital food tester was off the pavement and on my tail. If a kid or someone's dog had run into the road we'd have been pulling his teeth out of my boot lid seconds later. And WTF was he doing on the road in the first place? Or the pavement for that matter? Thought they weren't legal for use in public as per the other thread.

_________________
Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein

I don't think so... I was hoping someone with more legal knowledge would complain if I got it wrong



Oh I didn't say it was legal, but when I was there (Perth) it seemed quite normal to drive on the right and overtake on the left on the roads in and out of the city. The amount of "Keep Left" signs and the conversations I had suggested that it really was what most people did. But I've only been there in total for 6 weeks
Need to go back

_________________
Andrew.

ahh, well the 'keep left' thing doesn't apply on local roads - ie those with a limit under 80km/h - and, unlike here, most local roads are 2 lanes. My bad, I thought you were talking about motorway type roads (which are also usually 2 lanes).
On local roads people will tend to stick to the right lane as there's usually cars parked in the left.

This argument winds me up regardless of the situation under discussion. Perhaps less so here than when it's coming from some tourist with a caravan on a single carriageway at rush hour who refuses to let people overtake, but the principle is the same.

IOW, people who make that argument generally have little consideration for those who'se living involves long distance driving. If I had kids I could use the "think of the children argument" at this point, if I was so inclined.

the people who hold you up may seem selfish.... but then so does this attitude.
not sure why one road user should have higher priority than another (unless you're blessed with flashing lights and legal immunity).

Yep, ones focus certainly alters when driving with a purpose as opposed to aiming to just get somewhere - the shops, work etc within a reasonable timeframe.
On the other side of the coin however, stereotypical images and reputations don't just appear out of nowhere. There is a definitate perception that company car 'suits' will tend to drive in an aggressive manner to get to their next meeting or whatever, and will metaphorically push other people out of their way even though they may be driving at or even above the speed limits themselves.
I guess ones point of view depends upon which side of the 'slowpoke' / 'assertive drivers' windscreen you are sitting.

I never claimed I should have higher priority, just that I beleive it selfish to hold up a whole bunch of people for no other reason than you have plenty of time on your hands.

I think a couple dawdling at 30 on a long winding stretch of twisty single carriageway (say, the A702 for example) without stopping to let people pass are being selfish, at least when farmers move their tractors on such roads they will stop from time to time to let the queue clear, and HGV drivers will use their improved visibility to tell you when it's safe to overtake (it's an entirely separate debate as to whether you should rely on this information! the effort is appreiated though)

It's the same as the 40mph Nissan Micra in L2 of a motorway is being more selfish than than the wide load + escort that is doing 40mph in L1+L2.

Am I being selfish for wanting to get past these people and get home on time. Probably, but then I'm in a queue with 20 other inconvinienced people all trying to get past one person who is dawdling down the single carriageway for their own benefit, therefore that person is being 20 times more selfish.

still don't understand why you're getting upset about this

as i have already pointed out.... i have plenty of time on my hands which is why i'm happy to sit it out in L2 rather than dive into the queue in L3.

the people diving into L3 and joining the queue clearly don't have this attitude or they wouldn't be there jostling to get past.

therefore it's not the people who are in no particular hurry who are being 'selfish' by getting in your way. more than likely its more people like yourself who have a reason to hurry and hence all think everyone else in L3 is just getting in the way.



totally unrelated to the discussion currently being undertaken which is:
tailgating caused by queues in L3 of a motorway.

Well that's fine, I have no problem with that.



I thin when I originally brought up this situation, I pointed out the ones who move from L3 to undertake and fill up the gap that was formerly my stopping distance, hence why people tailgate through this kind of obstruction.

If the person was already in L2 anyway, I'll likely let them in, but if they don't signal and just cut into my stopping distance then I think I'm perfectly entitled to get annoyed by it. If they undertook then did that then I dont think anyone could argue that point.

All I'm trying to say is people who drive a lot will eventually get sick of this happening and take steps to ensure that it doesn't happen any more, ie tailgate since every other bugger does it anyway.

The ideal solution would be to have motorways of 4 lanes or more, with lorries only allowed in 2 lanes, this would help to separate the 70mph people from the nutter sales rep people.



I think someone asked why I find that argument winds me up. That argument winds me up regardless of the situation, so I used a more clear cut example to justify my position.

I agree with the basis of Lum's argument - it is very annoying when your safe gap is continuously being pulled into by people undertaking, and I will actively close the gap up to prevent them pulling in, and let it open when they can not safely pull in.

A friend gets so annoyed by it that he will indicate left and drift onto the line to give them the impression that he is changing lanes on them without looking.

But the underlying problem is that it is difficult to make progress, and the primary cause is lack of road capacity. A secondary cause is people that ignore the basic principle that an overtaking lane is for overtaking in. The anal attitude towards speed doesn't help the situation as it encourages people to overtake very slowly when they could simply accelerate to say 80 mph while passing and then slow down when they change lanes back again.

But what does that ultimately achieve? I fully understand why you would feel annoyed, but it doesn't solve anthing whatsoever.

I do 75k a year so understand the whole driving for a living thing and I'm definately with ed_m on this one. Those that are so desperate to get past in L3 often mean that there is such a queue building up that it's safer to maintain your original speed in L2. If a safe gap develops in L3 as I approach the vehicle in L2 then I will consider using it, if not then I'll stay in L2.

Personally I find this adds very little in terms of additional jouney time but is much less stressful. I'd rather do that then join in the merry antics of those in L3 who are all driving very close together to save their space in line(understanable) with the consequential constant on/off of the brake lights but ultimately making very litttle additional progress then L2. Keeping in L1 and 2 and feeling relaxed means I'm often in a much better frame of mind when I reach my destination or home.

So long as you don't barge into the 2 second gap I'm leaving and were in L1 or L2 to begin with, then I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with this.

Most people just blat down L2 and then cut in front of me though. No-one will let you in so the only way to gurantee getting past the trucks without being antisocial/dangerous is to get into L3 before it becomes a problem.

Perhaps you don't spend as much time on the M6 as I do

I tend to find a back seat filled with milk bottles that are discarded via the sunroof tends to dissuade even the most insistent tailgater!

[quote="Lum
Most people just blat down L2 and then cut in front of me though. No-one will let you in so the only way to gurantee getting past the trucks without being antisocial/dangerous is to get into L3 before it becomes a problem.

Perhaps you don't spend as much time on the M6 as I do [/quote]

Possibly this is a midlands M6 thing - LUM- though quite often find that L2 is faster and less stressfull.
However have found that with 1/2 in L3 playing the road block game at 65 -70, bluffing an undertake(Whilst still keeping a safe distance behind them- ) often either makes them either pull over or speed up.Works most effectively on BMWs