Safe Speed Forums

you don't like 4x4s because they don't allow you to tailgate enough? Methinks you need to tend to your own driving before you start worrying about anyone else on the road.

Fair enough, I don't like vehicles that are difficult to see around(which, as you point out there are many). I far as I was aware this was about off road vehicles (or 4X4) not about other vehicles.

I was just saying the only problem I have is just seeing round them, like I do with other large vehicles.I don't lose any sleep about it.

MPV's however I can not understand them. You can fit lots people and not much stuff, or you can five people as you would in a saloon and have room for stuff, which you can get in a saloon.

edit- I personally could not give a dam what you drive, as it is your choice.not mine.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

There is a post on PH from someone in London --he has at present a "normal " vehicle , possibly low , and now having traversed the back streets in a friends 4x4 sees the advantages of one - for a start no damage to exhaust/suspension and a more comfortable ride.

Now why did we get speed humps - one answer that i have heard mooted around my neck of the woods is that it saved police time .Another answer is that it slowed "joyriders " etc.Possibly even the NIMBY brigade because of main route congestion.
Perhaps if the powers that be had spent the money on police manpower ( sorry person power) to remove the problem via education of the legal and prosecution of the illegal and removing the need to use "rat runs" than looking at the Pee Cee cures then we would not need speed humps ,and motorists would not be looking at the financial benefits of 4x4 in urban areas.(spend the money on something that is not affected bt the humps -or keep paying out for repairs)
Whether or not normal car drivers like 4x4 , perhaps the time has come for all motorists to close ranks and defend the 4x4 owners - find out the views of your local /county councillors and canditates at the next set of elections and get rid of those anti motorist ones.
Once 4x4 are erradicated - what next - cars that can carry several not allowed on the road unless all seats are occupied????

My tuppenceworth.

That's PRECISELY the point of them!

With all the seats in, you can carry more people than a saloon car. With some seats, you can carry some people and some luggage. With no seats in, you can carry no people and lots of luggage. It can be a car or a van or a mixture of the two! (and if you plop a roof box on the top, you can carry more people than a saloon car AND more luggage AND block even more of everyone's view of the road AND use shed-loads more fuel AND STILL not get the vilification that 4x4 drivers seem to come in for!

ree.t wrote:


"MPV's however I can not understand them. You can fit lots people and not much stuff, or you can five people as you would in a saloon and have room for stuff, which you can get in a saloon. "

And at present if you decide you want/need one ---pop along to the MPV saleroom of your choice - and it's yours.


Let the 4x4 mob loose - and whats next - MPV - cars with 2 seats - cars that hold more that 40 l of fuel.

I personally can side with the blind aspect of being behind a large vehicle - but hey -we had 4 kids - wish that MPV had been around in my day- lot safer than 4 kids of various ages in the rear of some of the 70s cars.

And above all -in this Democracy ( last time i looked it was ) the choice of spending your hard earned cash was yours - not the chair person of the local vehicle allotment society

Vehicles have allotments? I didn't know they were into gardening...

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Chris

Not quite - but the society - might just as well be

I was debating including that point as I knew it could be interpretted the way you just did. I guess I worded it the wrong way. You are making assumptions about how far ahead I want to be able to see, and how close I am to the vehicle in front.

I try to drive following the normal safe speed guidelines (stop in the distance you can see to be clear, 2 second rule, etc.). I know I'm not perfect, and I do try and improve my driving every time I'm on the road. Every time I drive though, I see other drivers who don't follow these rules. I've had drivers pull into a 2 second gap on the motorway leaving me with maybe a 0.5 second gap. The bigger the gap the more likely someone is to pull into it (I think everyone must have experienced this at some point?).

Regardless of how close I am to the vehicle in front, if it is big then it blocks more space from sight, I think we can agree on that? The more roadspace it blocks me from seeing, the further back I go until I can see enough to make me feel comfortable.

If my perception of the risks leads me to a 4 second gap and the driver next to it thinks a mere 1 second gap is necessary then he is likely to pull out. This happens everywhere, not just in the vicinity of large vehicles, but the presence of a large vehicle in front of me can make it more likely to occur because my perceived level of risk seems to be much higher than that of the guy who pulls into the space.

On the other hand, perhaps I am getting too close to the car in front. I thank you for pointing it out and will pay extra attention to this aspect of driving next time I'm out and about.

more reasons for 4x4


Seems potholes are on the increase , so more people are getting vehicles equiped to deal with our "off road " roads.

But as i've found out locally - money for road repairs is not high on LA priorities.

A couple of things:-
Tax; The motorist is a very easy and convinient target so the Lib Dems can be holier than thou and raise more revenue to spend on 5 a day officers etc

Vehicles; Although there are stereotypes of owners (Golf's, BMW's and Volvo's in 1980's London do spring to mind) every owner drives a particular car for a mix of reasons - style, snoberry, what's available etc. Some people will fit the stereotype others won't.

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I walk I cycle I drive and I vote

I'm sure you'll like this.
They (Richmond Council) are also going to charge 50% more for second and subsequent cars !

Richmond Council

I don't know; having just looked in the back of mine I'm sure there's something growing in there....

when I drive my wifes Discovery I tend to drive slower and (for me) in a more relaxed manner. Its a TDi, I KNOW its not going to pull away as fast as my 306, I KNOW it can t corner at high speeds (anything over 40 really!!), I KNOW it can carry 6 kids (not all mine) and myself in relative safety, I KNOW it can pull 3.5 tonnes of trailer and Ponies quite easily!

If we target 4x4's now, what happens when global warming and congestion hasnt got any better?? Right, we will target cars with engines over 2litres (why do you need 3.6 litre?? or 4.4??), after that it will be commuters should all drive smart cars - smaller, lighter, less empty seats.

Then what - oh yeah, anyone who has a sports/classic car sat in the garage for the weekends/fine days should pay 10x as much road tax because they can afford it......

onto Motorbikes - lets just ban them all because they are inherently dangerous, the percentage of motorcyclists killed on the roads/per miles ridden is unacceptable....except pizza mopeds otherwise I wouldnt be able to get my Dominos/Pizza Hut delivered....

rant over - not all of the above should be taken as Gospel. But if we let others dictate to us what we can or cant buy/drive/ride then eventually we will all be affected. we will be given a choice of commuter vehicle/school run vehicle/"green" vehicle and taxed to death accordingly.

an interesting debate in there, I think the point above is a really good one (substitute 4x4 with "any sector of the driving public you feel like vilifying").

The same applies with anti-caravan, anti white-van-man, anti Black Cab, anti minicab, anti "old men with flat caps driving VW passats like they were driving Miss Daisy" sentiment - you only remember the "any sector of the driving public you feel like vilifying" bad events, those that go off with no problems quickly get forgotten.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

or in our case you can get two adults, 4 kids (all still in car seats, so take up more room than adults) and enough luggage for a weeks holiday including multiple buggy & bedding and food and portable potty and warm weather gear (it was an August holiday in northern Scotland ... of course it was cold!) without needing a roof box and still returning high 30's MPG.

See my earlier point, MPV's can easily be the "any sector of the driving public you feel like vilifying", a colleague of mine has a complete blind spot for Ford Galaxys ... other MPV's don't bother him, just the Galaxy.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

[my bold]

Actually, I have inadvertently discovered the antidote to this. Leave a decent sized gap in front of you in lane 1 and you very, very rarely have an issue with people using up your gap! Hundreds of metres of tarmac all to yourself!

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.