Safe Speed Forums

Meaning that the public respect the authorities less and the authorities respect the public less?

I'd agree with that, but I wouldn't apportion responsibility equally. The authorities are in control of this, and the public are just the public. They are the raw material that are moulded by a series of influences, one of which is the behaviour of the authorities. 'Policing for profit' is a respect bonfire that we need to put out PDQ, if not sooner.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Thanks to everyone who responded to this topic. I must be one of the few who had not realised the 3 second amber period was well known!

Just to be clear - I am not advocating running a red light. My point is that if the DofT deliberately keep the amber period the same whatever the speed limit and then ensure safety by increasing the all red period, they are actually expecting people to misjudge the stopping distance and run the red light.

That being the case the police are wrong to put cameras there and fine people for running the red light. At least they should ensure that by running the light there was a dangerous situation or an obvious intention to run the light before sending the NIP.

Furthermore this situation should be mentioned in the Highway Code. Drivers should be made aware that they are expected to slow to 30mph when approaching traffic lights on higher speed limit roads.

To be fair, I don't believe that it is well known.

We're a bit specialised, we are.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I'd be more inclined to say 'knowledgeable', or 'fed up with LA meddling', perhaps?


And I would agree. If people think that. But in the instances I have in mind, there is no doubt - If people know the various screwing up of our local road system is to frustrate motorists, then I can understand them ignoring these signs or traffic lights...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

It isn't well known, but it should be. I didn't even know that all traffic lights had the same amber length until I read it here a while back. It's one of the most useful bits of driving information I've ever found out.

Hmm, this is getting ridiculous.

I was approaching the left turn filter off the A41 at the Cosford lights today as they turned green and inevtiably a couple of cars passed from the now red direction. I was ready to roll through when I became aware of a squeel of tyres of yet another car which was hidden from view behind a lorry waiting at the still red lights on the main carriageway jumping the lights. I paused and sure enough a focus came flying past. I watched as it hared off down the road surprised that it wasn't being driven by a young tearway trainee from the camp but, presumably, a wifey (it was a woman) as the car turned into the living quarters area.

I am convinced that had I been driving like many others, i.e. expecting the green light to mean all clear, I would have been creamed.

I know that 'respect for the law' is going downhill fast, but this is getting ridiculous.

Are people starting to believe that if there isn't a red light cameras there the red light is 'fair game'?

Is this a new and unthought-of way in which red light cameras make every other junction more dangerous?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I go back to what I said earlier. Not sure that red-lights are now "fair game" but I do believe that where they are seen to be just another hindrance, then they are there to be ignored.

I was driving home last night through West Bromwich. I slowed down as I approached a particular set of lights (that aren't needed and have been put in purely to cause a nuisance) that were on green for me, and, as expected, a car shot out across me (through HIS red lights) and proceeded on his journey.

Those that regularly drive this route know which lights are hindrance lights and those that are not, but obviously strangers to the area won't.

So what can be done?

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

It's my opinion that the authories, by their actions, have damaged respect. It'll be a long slow struggle, but respect must again be earned.

We have to run road safety in the old fashioned British way - with absolute fairness and scrupulous honesty - and we have to use proper policing to crack down hard on the rogues.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I agree entirely.

And perhaps a way for the authorities to regain this lost respect would be to return the roads to the road-users, and re-enable people to be able to make hassle-free journeys...

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

I think its far too simplistic to look at peoples poor attitudes towards road traffic law and road safety as if they exist in a vacuum. IMHO people today are far less inclined to be respectful simply because its the right thing to do, or the right way to behave. We are far more impatient and simple things like traffic lights appear to represent, in drivers minds at least, a hinderance that is way out of proportion to the amount of time they actually waste sitting at them.
I don't even think traffic cameras have anything to do with it, I don't even know of any around here. Drivers have come to learn that they can get away with jumping traffic lights and no harm occuring as a result and they don't get caught. So, 'by the thin end of the wedge' mechanism they get bolder and bolder, pushing the envelope more and more simply to avoid having to wait. Yes, their frustration at having to wait at lights they personaly determine are unecessary and therefore just there to piss them off may factor in, but the pre-disposition to ignore them has to be there before they actually go ahead and do it. As I said above, I believe that predisposition is much more prevelant than it was, say, 30 years ago. In other words we are dealing with far more fragile temperaments than we ever were. Handling people with kid gloves and acceding to their every demand just because they get a bottom lip wobble at something is not always the answer. But, then again, I've spent my life being pissed around by people who are professionals at it, the government are just amateurs by comparison and have probably developed a certain tolerance towards inconveniece.
Yes, there's an element of the misanthrope in there but, when I step away from this forum and out into the real world, I am constantly reminded just how bloody stupid and ignorant some supposedly ordinary people can be.

I'll get down now..

But isn't this 'predisposition' borne out of the 'let's-batter-the-motorist-at-every-opportunity' mentality that exists within govt/LA?

Personally, I believe people are less inclined to obey traffic laws, where they can see that new road layouts, new TL's, lowered speed limits etc. are being implemented by faceless unaccountable morons, NOT for safety reasons.

Why should people respect these impositions?

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

Yeah, possibly.

But I think there's a 'elastic connection' between road traffic 'respect' (let's call it that) and wider social 'respect'. Each infects the other to some extent, I agree.

But standards of respect on our roads are still higher than many other european countries (IMO) while wider social standards of respect have slipped more than most.

So while I'm sure that wider social issues can have a negative effect on road traffic respect, I still think we can improve road traffic respec - and most importantly reverse the trend - in spite of wider social issues. And anyway putting a bit more stretch in that elastic can only help to pull wider social issues in the right direction.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Nope, it is borne out of the way society is as a whole. We often hear tell of how society is less respectful than it once was, kids are never told they are wrong, people are treated as individuals and are forgetting how to get along with others. Importantly, they are less inclined to be coralled within a 'system' which, whilst broadly equal to all, will at times benefit others more than it does themselves.



I will never be able to address this question with an answer that satisfies you because I do not appear to assess the world and how people should behave if we are all to get along, with the same baseline criteria that you do.

Agreed, but wider social standards have collapsed because there has been a near total collapse in the unwritten rules, the moral compass if you like. Road traffic rules still exist and people can still, more or less, see a need for them and are willing to respect them.
I wonder what it will be like in another 30 years, even if we left things as they are now or tried to go back to the old ways of enforcement.