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The bigger the engine the longer it'll last. It's worth it for vehicles that are going to do big mileages-and the overtaking thing is very relevant.

Performance is ALWAYS worth it....

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Smokebelching,CO2 making,child murdering planet raping,granny mugging,politically incorrect globally warming (or is it climate changing now it's getting colder?)thug.
That's what the government want you to believe of me. If they get back in I'm emigrating.

Bit torn on this question. When I went from a 1.4 Rover (spit) -90ish bhp to an Almera GTI (140 bhp) I couldn't believe how much easier and more relaxing driving became. Much easier to place the car in busy but flowing traffic, much less impact on other drivers. Felt safer with firm suspension, decent ABS, responsive steering, supportive sports seats etc.

Had a few swift ones since then, 200SX, MR2, 2.0 Alfa 156. Almost bought a Prodrive tweaked Impreza, -now that did overtake safely...appreciated the engineering in all.

But...as a chap in his mid 20's these cars needed significant self restraint and skills which I didn't always have. I wasn't stupid enough to crash any of them, but every now and then I did lack the experience to correctly judge when to use the performance.

My point is that if I scared myself when occasionally getting crossed up on a slippery road late at night, how dodgy must it be for even less circumspect drivers who can now buy 200bhp plus for less than the price of a 3 year old shopping trolley. Its great to have a car which inspires confidence, but there's a fine line between confidence and over-confidence.

Having said all that, I can't remember the last time I saw a young lad in a grey import driving dangerously. Maybe prohibitive insurance polices this effectively?

In any case, so many boring, standard modern cars are quick these days. I honestly feel that in my relatively unskilled hands, my Mk V 105bhp Golf tdi would be as quick point-to-point as most of the cars above just through torque, half decent chassis and raw mechanical grip.

edit: er...wouldn't keep up with the the Impreza of course.

Insurance is a big factor - for the legal drivers anyway. Unless you have lots of money that is.

The Prodrive Impreza is Insurance Group 19 (or higher), if you want to carry on driving one, then you had better really be thinking about what you are doing, as a fault accident will be very expensive.

To give an example: 40 year old with history of driving more powerful cars, PPP Impreza WRX (Prodrive Performance Pack), and more years of no claims than the insurers systems can record (70%), fully comp £680. Loose the no-claims and we are talking £2300 + any loading that they may add for being at fault. Repeat the high costs until the no claims is recovered, and it will cost £5000+.

It does make you concentrate that bit more, but at the same time having the high power available actually removes the temptation for stupid actions - if you know full well that you can beat anybody off the lights, then you don't need to proove it to anybody, least of all yourself.

Exorbitant insurance. That'll be why I splashed out on Protected No-Claims this year. There is no way in hell I could/would pay over a grand for insurance again.

The last time I did that I had an 'E' reg 1.1 Fiesta on a Provisional!!

It's true that more powerful cars have a lot of safety benefits, but try convincing your insurance company of that. Even for third party only insurance, where theoretically you are not insuring your car, but rather you are insuring any car you might happen to drive into.

I asked my insurance company to justify that and he said, I quote: "It's not the car, it's what you can do with it." So, in their warped sense of reality, the higher premium is justified on the idea that I could drive my Scooby into someone at 150mph whereas if I owned a fiesta I could only hit them at 100mph.

But, back to the question: If you do a lot of driving, you will not regret buying a more powerful car. But don't fall into the trap of thinking that more powerful always means a GTi turbo that always wants to be driven hard and will tire you on long journeys or around town. Unless you specifically want that, test drive a big (2.5L+) smooth 6-cylinder with a good automatic gearbox. They can be quite cheap secondhand and you will find it a joy to drive.

No brainer.

I've got the 3.2 version of the A3 with DSG. Makes for a very relaxing drive. It does 30mpg on the motorway at ~80 - can't realy ask for much more.

I did quite fancy a 2nd hand M5 or S8, but the Mrs wasn't having it, as I'd of liked a big powerful car even more.

Now if only I could afford the new RS4

Just buy yourself a yank if you want cheap insurance on a car that can perform.

£175 a year fully comp on a modified 5 litre V8 Pontiac Firebird capable of developing 375 BHP and was just about ticking over at 80 mph in top.

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

Rewolf

That is true and I agree with you but it doesn't matter how fast your car is there is always somebody with a faster one. But the fact they have a faster one means that they probably won't bother to do burn ups from the lights either so it would be a safer world all round. So everybody should have very fast cars.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Nice idea but I don't have a belt buckle big enough. Also can't afford the watch which you speak into to summon Pontiacs assistance



Michael Knight, a lone crusader in a dangerous world. The world... of the Knight Rider.

Yes I realise that he had a Trans-am

Well my experience is that the people with the really fast cars all drive sensibly - I am not claiming that they all do, but just those that I have met on the road: Imprezas, Evos, Ferrari's, Porsches, BMW M's, AMG Mercs and occasionally a Noble and a yellow Lamborghini. If the conditions allow, then they might be slightly liberal with open road speed limits, but in general they don't drive up your backside, and they don't scream off the lights. They know about cars, they know that what they are driving is fast, and that you are fast, and they also know that the public road is definitely not the place to test it out.

By fast I mean fast within the practical speed range; ignore absolute top speed, because that is meaningless unless you are a Policeman "familiarising yourself" with the vehicle. What I mean by fast is a 0 - 62 mph of 6 seconds or less, which is typically also reflected in all acceleration ranges. A PPP Impreza does the sprint in 4.8 seconds if you get the gear change right, and can go through corners far, far, faster than I dare to contemplate, but is really slow compared to a Caterham Super 7 Superlight R500 Evolution (3.2 seconds).

I suppose a secondary factor (in addition to the insurance costs) is that such vehicles are much more powerful than anybody can sanely use on the road, and that you very quickly learn to respect the car and to not drive it to the limits. The car is no longer the limiting factor, it is you (the driver) and the external conditions. This is the change in mindset that stops the drivers of faster vehicles driving like idiots, and perhaps Brookwood's comment is not so far from the truth. Silly though it may first appear.

The ones that do the pushing are those that want to be fast, but don't quite have the vehicle underneath them - the worst (in my experience) are those that really think that because they have got an "Ultimate Driving Machine" that they actually have the fastest car on the road. Err, No you haven't. And if you keep trying to prove that you have, you will end up in a ditch or something. OK, ignoring the implied manufacturer (because it is not really a manufacturer specific thing; most top end "hot hatches" also qualify and are outside of my 6 second yardstick) these are the ones that tailgate, and do the risky overtaking manoevres, because they really think that they are masters of their machines.

There is possibly a self limiting factor at work. If you can afford a fast expensive car then you have probably reached that stage in life when you don't have to prove anything. (Unless, of course, you earn your money by some slightly dubious means).

Even cheap fast cars are expensive in insurance costs for the very young and perhaps that is also a good thing.

When you are young you are curious to see whether your car is faster than the one next to you and if it is prove it. If not I used to go home and bolt another bit on to make mine go faster.

I once got 12mpg out of an 850 mini. Probably most of that was going straight out the back until I realised you needed to mix a suitable amount of air with it as well.

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Shooting is good for you and too good for some people.

I was in a Vauxhall dealer today watching an ~80 yr old man being shown round a Monaro VXR

For many owners this is true, but I have certainly seen such vehicles driven in a seriously knobbish fashion at times. For example a few weeks ago I saw a guy in a newish TVR attempt to overtake another vehicle doing maybe about 25 mph in a 30-limit shopping street, nearly causing a head-on collision. In some people the possession of a fast, expensive car seems to breed an arrogant "I own the road" mentality.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

For these people, though, the mentality is already there. The fast, expensive car merely lets them show their 'personality' more. They act the same whatever the car/budget.

Is a more powerful car justifiable?
Depends on how you try and justify it, but more power is one of the side-effects of rapidly improving engine technology in new cars, so a 2 litre diesel of today puts out twice the bhp for a quarter of the emissions of my first turbo diesel (Sierra in 1989) so on that basis, yes it is a massive improvement.
Or we could take that same technology and make an 800cc diesel engine that developed 70bhp or more, reliably; put it in a light chassis, make it do 80mpg but have a top speed of 95mph. That would be definitely justifiable. But would you be able to market it? Some already have, but the mass market is still sold bigger, more power, more cylinders, more 4x4, more fog lights (whoah there boy!!!) by the advertisers, and so that's what many buy because it appeals to the baser nature.
My car has 8 cylinders, runs on petrol, can develop 239bhp without a superchip. With the remap in it's more like 275bhp. Do I need it? No. Can I justify the numbers? No. But then I almost never use most of that potential power, instead I drive frugally and get a remarkable 36mpg on most journeys!
Change the market by changing the desirability and you'll have something justifiable for certain. Talk the the marketing men behind the car builders - it's a faster way of changing things than talking to the customers and waiting for the info to trickle back up the line.
Or we could persuade people to travel more than one-per-car everywhere. How's that for an instant fuel and environmental saving?

Now that is a blinding idea, but we still have one small drawback....

If I (for example) take my neighbour to work & back every day for a week, then I (not unreasonably) would expect him to partake in some of the running costs (ie, he goes "halves" on the fuel with me).

Trouble is, if I take money from him for taking him to work (even if he pays directly for the fuel one day at the petrol station), then I need to have hire & reward insurance.

Starting to get my drift?

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

No, that was changed some years ago - you don't need any additional insurance so long as he does no more than cover his share of your costs.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

I believe some of the official car pool schemes talked to insurance companies about that and suggested a figure of 10p per mile was an acceptable figure to charge someone.

A bigger problem is when everyone you work with lives in different areas. Who do you car pool with? People place an increasingly large value on time and that means that few co-workers are going to want to go too far out of their way every other day or two to take part in a company car pooling scheme.

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Make everything as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein