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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 13:56 
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Paul

It's called discretion. Ian, cotswold, Neil, The Man and self all apply it. Hanbo and Patch probably applied it when they were serving officers.

I have let a double white go in the past - because chap had started an overtake - but was beyond "abort limit" when he reached the doubles. I tugged him anyway - he was new to this road and had started his manoeuvre just before the road markings. Aborting the overtake would have compromised his safety and the straddling would have been nit picking.

We do not prosecute drivers or anyone else for nit picking offences. If you get a speeding ticket in Durham - you deserve it. We are very fair in our tolerance margins - and we do explain whys and wherefores here.

Scams are a different issue and it is the way they are being used - in a non-educational and arbitrary manner which is creating problems for all of us.

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A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
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Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2005 19:59 
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I just thought I would tag this in here, since it involves road safety and the law.
Saw this story today after it was widely reported on Radio Cumbria.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4552729.stm
I'm not sure if I am allowed to post this, since sentencing has not yet been carried out, BUT....
Quote:
District judge Gerald Chalk told Kydd the case was so serious that a custodial sentence would be considered.

CONSIDERED??????
Quote:
He was twice over the legal alcohol limit and had already been banned from driving by magistrates in Wigton in September 2004.

Since banning has achieved NOTHING in the past, then CUSTODIAL sentence is a MUST, in order to protect us from such people! :x

The police officers who keep returning this person to court, must be sick each time he is let off to return and committ the offence time and time again! If it was a loaded gun instead of a car, the person resposible for ensuring his freedom would be pilloried in the press, and rightly so!

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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 16:42 
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If I really am that much of an anti-social deviant then I figure I may as well become one properly. I've said this elsewhere before but until this is changed the police won't get any more help from me at all. So what some will say? And to an extent that is true. I am just one tiny, tiny individual amongst 60 odd million

WELL SAID
BOTH MYSELF AND MY GOOD LADY ARE HARD WORKING INDIVIUALS
BUT WE AGREE , WHY STRUGGLE TO STAY A LAW ABIDING CITIZEN
IF YOU ARE GOING TO BE TAKEN TO THE SCAMERA :twisted: CLEANERS???


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When will the government realise , that to err is only human, to be perfect is to be GOD.


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 19:02 
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In Gear wrote:
It's called discretion. Ian, cotswold, Neil, The Man and self all apply it. Hanbo and Patch probably applied it when they were serving officers.


Nah, Patch was military. He'd have been opening the barrier to let me in to work each morning - no real discretion required there. :D :bunker:
Don't make me do jankers please :lol:


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 20:10 
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It's called discretion. Ian, cotswold, Neil, The Man and self all apply it. Hanbo and Patch probably applied it when they were serving officers.


It's also attitude from both sides - if I pull you over, give you a ticket after having pointed to a speed limit sign, you'll probably walk away, think what a petty tw@t, and go and do exactly the same thing.

But if I pull you over, run some film of your actions, explain the dangers and send you on you're way, hopefully you'll think "Good bloke, I see his point" and not do it again.

Agree about using unmarked video cars as well, but here's the paradox - if we drive mainly marked cars, people drive better as they go past....BUT if we use unmarkeds, people complain they never see police cars around on the motorways these days!


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PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2005 22:47 
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Well, just at the instance his eyes come back to the highway in this 30 times a minute check-it tedium (yes, he's doing 29mph in a 30 maximum), a small child runs out into the road - literally from nowhere (we are told, remember, that kids play in all sorts of places - like motorways)...

Well, anyway; in the instance the driver glances back from his speedometer and notices the child, he realises he is too close to brake and completely stop the car without hitting the child. His other option is to swerve across the double white lines to try to miss the youngster.

Should the driver a) Obey the Law? Or b) Cross the double white lines to attempt to avoid the collision?


PaulNN18 wrote:
roger wrote:
.... I am almost certain that I would brake hard and if that was not going to work, still on the brakes (ABS) I'd steer LEFT into whatever inanimate obstacles were there to miss the child and avoid any possibility of either a head on or being (indirectly) responsible for the child's death by avoiding actions of another. ....


Sorry, Roger. There is the odd dropped kerb on the left hand side of the road (which has allwed the kiddie to emerge) - otherwise the pavement is a 2 foot climb from the road surface with railings. An attempt to go to the left would have you sliding along the the obstacle (rather than mounting it) with little control, likely exacerbating the immediate problem.

Are you going to brake as hard as you can (obeying the law) and almost certainly knock the kid over?

Or are you going to disregard the law and drive across the double white lines - and making it a bit easier for you; it would appear unlikely (though not impossible) your vehicle would be struck by another as a consequence of your action of wanton disobedience in disregarding the demands of an Act of Parliament?

Are you going to obey the law or not? Yes or no? I am not asking you to mitigate after the event - I am asking you what you would tell other people to do before the event, if such an event took place.

I think I have shown that the law, and all the claptrap that goes with "unquestioning obedience" is a load of clap-trap. And whilst we all should want to obey the spirit of the law, there is always an exception to any rule - no matter how well intentioned that rule is.


You miss understand the purpose of speed limits

Doing 29 mph in a 30 mph zone does not excuse not being fully in control of your vehicle. If you can not stop or have to cross the double white lines then you are driving without due care and attention.

You should have recognised the drop kerbs and the double white lines as areas of danger and reduced your speed accordingly.

Sometimes it isn't safe to do 15 miles an hour when the posted limit is 30 miles an hour.

It is about accepting personal responsibility for your speed, against the reliance of the authorities to set an arbitrary speed for all users of vastly differing abilities who are traveling in wide ranging weather conditions.

Your reasoning of having to chose between breaking the law and not being able to stop safely illustrates exactly why the current policy of concentrating mainly on the posted speed is costing so many lives.


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PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2005 15:39 
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gpmgroup wrote:
You miss understand the purpose of speed limits

Doing 29 mph in a 30 mph zone does not excuse not being fully in control of your vehicle. If you can not stop or have to cross the double white lines then you are driving without due care and attention.

You should have recognised the drop kerbs and the double white lines as areas of danger and reduced your speed accordingly.

Sometimes it isn't safe to do 15 miles an hour when the posted limit is 30 miles an hour.

It is about accepting personal responsibility for your speed, against the reliance of the authorities to set an arbitrary speed for all users of vastly differing abilities who are traveling in wide ranging weather conditions.

Your reasoning of having to chose between breaking the law and not being able to stop safely illustrates exactly why the current policy of concentrating mainly on the posted speed is costing so many lives.


I actually agree with what you say in a general fashion, but I vehimently disagree and disaprove of the way the speed limit is enforced by automatic cameras which is about ABusing the law to extort money from the traveling public, GpmGroup...

In looking at your argument, does this mean we should have a reduction in speed limits to say 15mph to cover the anticipated 2 people per dacade doing so might save???

There would be no plane crashes if we grounded all the aircraft, after all!

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Although I used to consider myself to be a "reasonable man", the law just sees me as a criminal... My uncontrolled anti-social activities solely include the undeniable fact I usually drive my car at or just below the 85th percentile.


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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2005 09:48 
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In the double white lines scenario: (not in any order of priority)
1. You should be driving so that you can stop in the distance you can see to be clear.
2. You should be driving within the speed limit
3. You should be observing the road and its surroundings such that nothing is entirely unexpected
4. If you have to cross the double white lines in a genuine emergency, then that's OK, as long as you don't compound the emergency by say running a cyclist down coming the other way. It is perfectly legal to enter hatching bounded by a solid line in an emergency so I would be very surprised if the same wasn't true of double whites.
Ultimately if you don't drive safely and competently you will eventually get tugged by the BiB. A pedantic "but I was obeying the law" will not be a valid excuse. :o


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 13:54 
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PaulNN18 wrote:
gpmgroup wrote:
You miss understand the purpose of speed limits

Doing 29 mph in a 30 mph zone does not excuse not being fully in control of your vehicle. If you can not stop or have to cross the double white lines then you are driving without due care and attention.

You should have recognised the drop kerbs and the double white lines as areas of danger and reduced your speed accordingly.

Sometimes it isn't safe to do 15 miles an hour when the posted limit is 30 miles an hour.

It is about accepting personal responsibility for your speed, against the reliance of the authorities to set an arbitrary speed for all users of vastly differing abilities who are traveling in wide ranging weather conditions.

Your reasoning of having to chose between breaking the law and not being able to stop safely illustrates exactly why the current policy of concentrating mainly on the posted speed is costing so many lives.


I actually agree with what you say in a general fashion, but I vehimently disagree and disaprove of the way the speed limit is enforced by automatic cameras which is about ABusing the law to extort money from the traveling public, GpmGroup...

In looking at your argument, does this mean we should have a reduction in speed limits to say 15mph to cover the anticipated 2 people per dacade doing so might save???

There would be no plane crashes if we grounded all the aircraft, after all!


The problem lies with the targeting of resources. There is a very dangerous belief with the Lawmakers that technology can be used to solve many of societies’ problems.

What they have failed to realise is that most of the spend is on the pointless monitoring of people that are on the whole mainly law abiding citizens. In doing so the net is often spread too thinly and in turn fails to target the underlying problem effectively.

Speed Camera's are about as effective at solving road casualties as CCTV is in stopping crime and ID cards will be in preventing terrorism.

Speed cameras are a very effective way of raising revenue (taking a little from a lot of people rather than targeting the significantly smaller group of reckless or thoughtless people who incidentally often also have very limited revenue.)

Even if speed cameras prevented all speeding ever! The likely reduction in fatalities is 120. (12% of accidents attributable to inappropriate speed 2/3rds of which are within the speed limit.)

Every life saved is vitally important but the distraction with speed enforcement is allowing significantly more road deaths than it is saving. The problem is now exacerbated by revenue raising potential. This is clearly seen in the deluge of misleading press releases trying to justify their continued funding.


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 20:05 
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cotswold wrote:
Quote:
It's called discretion. Ian, cotswold, Neil, The Man and self all apply it. Hanbo and Patch probably applied it when they were serving officers.


It's also attitude from both sides - if I pull you over, give you a ticket after having pointed to a speed limit sign, you'll probably walk away, think what a petty tw@t, and go and do exactly the same thing.

But if I pull you over, run some film of your actions, explain the dangers and send you on you're way, hopefully you'll think "Good bloke, I see his point" and not do it again.

Agree about using unmarked video cars as well, but here's the paradox - if we drive mainly marked cars, people drive better as they go past....BUT if we use unmarkeds, people complain they never see police cars around on the motorways these days!


Oh yes... we get this too... :lol:

We use a mix in reality - and it is about attitude on both sides. We tend to let the person have their moment of rage and then just smile and say "Got it off your chest? Let's chat calmly"

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2005 20:10 
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Ernest Marsh wrote:
I just thought I would tag this in here, since it involves road safety and the law.
Saw this story today after it was widely reported on Radio Cumbria.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4552729.stm
I'm not sure if I am allowed to post this, since sentencing has not yet been carried out, BUT....
Quote:
District judge Gerald Chalk told Kydd the case was so serious that a custodial sentence would be considered.

CONSIDERED??????
Quote:
He was twice over the legal alcohol limit and had already been banned from driving by magistrates in Wigton in September 2004.

Since banning has achieved NOTHING in the past, then CUSTODIAL sentence is a MUST, in order to protect us from such people! :x

The police officers who keep returning this person to court, must be sick each time he is let off to return and committ the offence time and time again! If it was a loaded gun instead of a car, the person resposible for ensuring his freedom would be pilloried in the press, and rightly so!


Oh .. tell me about it....

It is soul destroying. There are worse though - last month, papers were full of a chap copped 29 times - all drink driving and let off because of his need to care for an elderly relative or something.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!


Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.


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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2005 00:55 
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One of our local drug dealers has just got 80 hours community service for... dealing!

AGAIN. :x

He used to live opposite me, so I know who he deals to, and I personally think the person who decided 80 hours was adequate punishment should do 80 hours of community service himself - in the morgue, or in casualty at a city centre hospital, to see the grief caused by these scum.

There'll be no rehabilitating the dealer, the best that can be hoped for is that he comes to an early end - preferably in a pact with one of his compatriots!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


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