Safe Speed Forums

Unfortunately the inconsiderate behaviour of so many motorists means that any effective pro-pedestrian measure has to be anti-motorist. Those bollards are only there because a simple sign, which would be adequate in a law abiding community, would be ignored by many drivers.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

Agreed, except I would say some drivers not "many"

But this goes back to my old argument: Some numpty rockets through a village at 50 mph hurting or nearly killing someone so they stick a scamera up which gets Mr & Ms Average doing a safe 34mph when no-one is around and so the stupid few spoil it for the safe majority.

Doing 20mph over the limit through a village is not the same as doing 20mph, or more, on an empty DC or motorway but it's regarded the same unfortunately. The conditions or circumstances are not taken into account and until people wake up to this fact you are never going to target bad drivers and driving.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

The way that car bounced off the bollards is not in the interest of pedestrian safety. We have bollards in Tamworth, and in Birmingham, I have lived here for four years (Birmingham area 11), I have never heard of any problems. There is something wrong with the bollards. These incidents are just too frequent. If it was anything else causing injury’s heads would roll, it would not be allowed. So what one or two people ignore the sign? let traffic wardens/police.....even PCSO deal with it.I really doubt they would cause a major danger to safety if they drove down the road. After all they let buses though. If they where really intrested in saftey busses would not be allowed as well.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

BOLLARDS

BOLLARDS

BOLLARDS

Not to worry.
We have them in Bedford. They are no longer used. The bus company got new buses and failed to install the transponders. the first over the bollards got £5000.00 damage to it. Not to mention the damage to the bollards. They also stopped the taxis using the bus/taxi lane they "protected". There is also a question mark over their operation, they are SUPPOSED to have sensors in the road to detect a vehicle so as to ensure they DO NOT rise if a vehicle is approaching. Unfortunately this function has to be "enabled"....obviously the councils are not enabling the vehicle detection, or are actively disabling it.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

The people in charge of this system have lost sight of the relative importance of excluding traffic compared to the other risks involved. They have no sense of what constitutes reasonable measures.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

It's fascinating to see the extraordinary lengths some of the "regulars" on here will go to, to defend what can only be described as stupid behaviour.

Let's face it, if your car gets hit by a rising bollard in a clearly marked access-only road in a city centre, you were driving like a cretin.

The problem is that so many people now drive like cretins, because by and large they get away with it, that measures such as the rising bollards are becoming necessary.

The profusion of humps, cameras, bollards etc is not an attack on courteous, sensible, careful drivers. These things are necessary thanks to the bad manners of more and more drivers who think nothing of tearing through residential and city centre roads at high speed, thinking nothing of the hazards, the inconvenience to non-motorised road users, and residents who have to put up with the disturbance and noise.

A similar "defending the indefensible" stance can be seen on the thread about average speed cameras. Having driven through many of these stretches of road, I can see absolutely no need for the silly antics being described, such as tailgating lorries through the cameras.

It's simple really, just stop driving like berks.

I don't agree with your assessment of the posts about bollards. We do not condone trying to slip past the barriers. Instead, we are exposing the stupidity of an access control system which has the potential to cause actual injury to people.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Yes just like the bus and the fire engine in links above. I am not defending the drivers; give them fines or a talking too. There is no need to cause injuries can you really justify it? like I said we have them in tamworth, but the operate with no problems. There is an issue with those bollards.

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Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor

JBr.... I dont think you fully appreciate how serious and long lasting head injuries can be. I have a colleage who fell down stairs who has totally changed charicture. His patience is set to -1. He can be very grouchy, he is now divorced and estranged from his kids. It affects every one around him.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

So it is anti-motorist, even anti-good-motorist. I don't mind anti-bad motorist, but when all have to suffer when there are means of tacking the bad apples I have to wonder if this is more anti-motorist than pro-pedestrian.


The fact the bollard rises out of the ground in a manner likely not seen by the offender, when a visible gate (or even a partial gate to still allow cyclists through) will have the same effect of disabling access but inherently giving a clear indication when access is in the process of being restricted, means it genuinely is vindictive (malicious ill will and a desire to hurt).

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The point is being missed. DfT advice:


The systems that catch anyone "tailgating" or "not transponding correctly" are FAIL-TO-DANGER instead of FAILSAFE.
Since I KNOW that the systems have the correct road sensors I can assume [safely] that the sensors are disabled: Deliberately probably.
Two wrongs do not make a right.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

You and jomo are winning me round on this The bollards are not operated in accordance with DfT guidelines which is wrong. And I do agree that a more visible detergent would be equally effective and less dangerous, though more susceptible to vandals.

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown

I think you mean "deterrent", not "detergent" On the other hand, maybe you're right - it could be a type of nozzle which squirts something horrid into your radiator grill. That would deter most people, without lifting the car into the sky.

The fact is technology can and does occasionally fail us and people can and do sometimes make an innocent mistake. So even if it’s very rare, in such an event there shouldn’t be such a high and dangerous price to pay.

This bollard thing is like me being automatically Tazered when the alarm goes off leaving B&Q even though I’ve paid for everything. Happens to me a lot for some reason

Of course some may enjoy seeing me Tazered. I think it would look like the way I danced back in the 70s

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Just had a look at three videos from the link on first post .... and a pic of bollards that appear to have come up underneath a fire appliance ... very handy if they were on their way to a real fire with lives at risk ... I'm sure somebody from the council would be perfectly happy to go round and explain to loved ones and relatives that it's better their loved ones/relatives got fried or died of smoke inhilation rather than there was any possibility someone could drive illegaly down a bus/emergency services only lane, and that they don't often go wrong.

In the three videos I can see how this could happen quite innocently .... you're in a strange city, lost, looking for signs, trying to find a somewhere, it's busy with traffic, bicycles, pedestrians, driving along behind a bus which you can't see past so miss the warning signs ... bang ..... get rid of these things before somebody gets badly injured or worse.

Why on earth are these things built like brick sh*t houses? great big steel poles .... if they really must exist why not at least make em smaller diameter and out of something that snaps off easily?

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You only need two tools - WD40 and duct tape. If it doesn't move and it should, use WD40. If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape. :0)

Because they're built to last. They have to rise and fall many times a day and in quite a contaminated environment.
The fact is that they are NOT supposed to rise beneath a vehicle, the sensors are supposed to STOP that happening because it is DANGEROUS. If the sensors are not functioning they are FAIL_TO_DANGER and are a hazard.

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The world runs on oil, period. No other substance can compete when it comes to energy density, flexibility, ease of handling, ease of transportation. If oil didn’t exist we would have to invent it.”

56 years after it was decided it was needed, the Bedford Bypass is nearing completion. The last single carriageway length of it.We have the most photogenic mayor though, always being photographed doing nothing

Maybe I should quit while the going’s good

Bias for/against road user groups aside (for the sake of argument let’s assume the access scheme is justified): I’m sure all of us can agree that those drivers likely wouldn’t have gone for it if they could see they were not going to make it.
I would say in all the shown cases the drivers had no idea the way was actually blocked.

Gates may be more susceptible to vandals, but it occurs to me these bollards suffer comparatively much more damage, and much more frequently, from the incidents they cause. I’ve never heard of any issue at airports where they use gates (very visible) to allow only buses into the pick up/drop off points.

The more I think about it, the more I find this method of governance to be outright repulsive.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

You might yet correct a lack of understanding on my part. Does this not depend where the sensors are located? If the sensors are placed at the bollard then wouldn’t that result with what we’ve seen, even if they are properly activated?

It seems to me the bollards do stop rising (and retract in some of those cases), but only when the vehicles are already upon them.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

I think that you are right Steve. All the incidents we are discussing are caused by vehicles driving into the bollards rather than the bollards rising under a vehicle. There must be two sets of sensors, one in front of the bollards which detects the vehicles authorisation (either passively or actively) to take them down; and another, metal detecting, sensor to bring them back up when the vehicle is clear.
It is the position and timing of the latter which is important. It must be positioned next to the bollard so as to avoid spearing a stopped vehicle and it appears to act immediately. One solution would be for there to be a delay before the bollards rise and a very obvious warning that they are about to do so, as at level crossings. Another would be for drivers to leave a sensibly gap between them and the vehicle in front

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When I see an adult on a bicycle, I do not despair for the future of the human race. H.G. Wells
When I see a youth in a motor car I do d.c.brown