Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sun Oct 26, 2025 20:09

View unanswered posts | View active topics


Board index » Discussion Forums » Speed, Safety, Driving and The Law

All times are UTC [ DST ]



Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 21
  [ 419 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 21  Next
  Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Steve
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 13:14 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
weepej wrote:
Quite why we have to wait for people to be killed before one is installed I don't know...

I do! It is so the SCPs can claim the RTTM effect as their own doing.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Steve
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 13:18 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
Rigpig wrote:
So this is a mobile device which is being operated as a speed camera right?

It is a speed camera (or part of one anyway)!

http://www.teletrafficuk.com/concept.htm
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Dixie
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 13:18 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2005 19:50
Posts: 3369
Location: Lost in the Wilderness
Rigpig wrote:
So this is a mobile device which is being operated as a speed camera right?


That’s what they tell you and, what they want you to believe. As we already know speed cameras are not having the desired effect of reducing road deaths on our roads. I see this as another insult to the driving population of Britain and, a further advance to a Draconian state. What else will they be used for I wonder?

_________________
Useless laws weaken necessary laws.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
glaikie
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 16:58 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 23:24
Posts: 94
Spireman wrote:
How long will it be before the level of hatred of these infernal devices reaches such a pitch that civil disobedience and downright anarchy is fomented?

Well, given that every poll taken on the subject of speed cameras and speed limit enforcement show an overwhelming majority in favour of both, the answer must be "don't hold your breath".
A rag-bag rump of mis-informed extremists, succoured by sites like this, already vandalise speed cameras. Must we flatter these thugs by calling their crimes 'civil disobedience'?

_________________
Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PeterE
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 17:08 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
glaikie wrote:
Spireman wrote:
How long will it be before the level of hatred of these infernal devices reaches such a pitch that civil disobedience and downright anarchy is fomented?

Well, given that every poll taken on the subject of speed cameras and speed limit enforcement show an overwhelming majority in favour of both, the answer must be "don't hold your breath".

Every poll? Really? Do you have evidence for this?

I've seen plenty of on-line polls on media sites showing large majorities for propositions such as "there are too many speed cameras" and "speed cameras are mainly a means of revenue raising".

Also bear in mind that the official government poll questions are so biased that anyone questioning the use of speed cameras is made to feel as though they are supporting child abuse.

glaikie wrote:
A rag-bag rump of mis-informed extremists, succoured by sites like this, already vandalise speed cameras. Must we flatter these thugs by calling their crimes 'civil disobedience'?

Oh how I love the voice of reason :roll:

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Rigpig
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 17:14 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 09:59
Posts: 3544
Location: Shropshire
Dixie wrote:
Rigpig wrote:
So this is a mobile device which is being operated as a speed camera right?


That’s what they tell you and, what they want you to believe. As we already know speed cameras are not having the desired effect of reducing road deaths on our roads. I see this as another insult to the driving population of Britain and, a further advance to a Draconian state. What else will they be used for I wonder?


What else could they be used for I wonder? I suppose our imaginations could run wild here. Is this a real 'big brother' threat, or another candidate for inclusion in the 'Scared To Death' book?
So what exactly are we up in arms about here?
We don't want the police to be able to spot drivers doing stupid things whilst they are supposed to be driving?
We don't think the sort of things that the police will spot and prosecute drivers for are the sort of things we think they should be prosecuting them for?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
glaikie
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 17:27 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 23:24
Posts: 94
Yes, every.
I've never seen one where a majority of the general public are against speed limit enforcement and speed cameras. Safespeed forum polls of safespeed forummers don't count, before you start.
Have you got an example of an official govt. poll question that is

Quote:
so biased that anyone questioning the use of speed cameras is made to feel as though they are supporting child abuse.
?

_________________
Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Steve
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 17:40 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
glaikie wrote:
Well, given that every poll taken on the subject of speed cameras and speed limit enforcement show an overwhelming majority in favour of both, the answer must be "don't hold your breath".
A rag-bag rump of mis-informed extremists, succoured by sites like this, already vandalise speed cameras. Must we flatter these thugs by calling their crimes 'civil disobedience'?

Perhaps your should read up on the relatively recent survey compiled by the independent and professional data capture and analysis organisation Datamonitor (Reference Code: CYFS5383, Publication Date: 03/06).

Some snippets:

Code:
Drivers are less aware of other hazards when they are looking out for speed cameras

% of responses             Total     
                                                                               
Agree                         71       
Neither agree nor disagree    18
Disagree                      10   
Don’t know                     1 


Speed cameras encourage people to drive more erratically

% of responses             Total     
                                                                               
Agree                         54     
Neither agree nor disagree     9 
Disagree                      25       
Don’t know                     2       


Speed cameras are used mainly as a revenue generating opportunity

% of responses             Total   
                                                                               
Agree                         66         
Neither agree nor disagree    18 
Disagree                      14       
Don’t know                     2     


The best way to increase safe driving is speed cameras

% of responses             Total
                                                                               
Agree                         13         
Neither agree nor disagree    26   
Disagree                      58   
Don’t know                     3   
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Steve
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 17:45 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
glaikie wrote:
Yes, every.
I've never seen one where a majority of the general public are against speed limit enforcement and speed cameras. Safespeed forum polls of safespeed forummers don't count, before you start.
Have you got an example of an official govt. poll question that is

I've not seen a government report that properly accounts for RTTM and 'bias on selection' at camera sites!

BTW: questions like "should cameras be used to enforce safe driving?" don't count; the questions must be about what is happening, not what should be.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
glaikie
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 17:48 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 23:24
Posts: 94
smeggy wrote:
Perhaps your should read up on the relatively recent survey compiled by the independent and professional data capture and analysis organisation Datamonitor (Reference Code: CYFS5383, Publication Date: 03/06).

Sure. Link me to it.

Edit: It's OK, I found it. Thanks for the laugh! :D

_________________
Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights?


Last edited by glaikie on Sat Dec 29, 2007 18:10, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Steve
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 17:55 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Sep 25, 2005 10:16
Posts: 7986
Location: Moved to London
glaikie wrote:
Sure. Link me to it.

I wish I could but it is a licenced document. Feel free to contact them directly at:

Datamonitor Europe
Charles House
108-110 Finchley Road
London NW3 5JJ
United Kingdom
t: +44 20 7675 7000
f: +44 20 7675 7500
e: eurinfo@datamonitor.com

Alternatively, see the summary published by Swiftcover here.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
RobinXe
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 18:36 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
Glad you got a laugh glaikie, its clearly a reciprocal thing.

So when you said 'every' poll, did you really mean every study other than th ones you have arbitrarily chosen to discount because they disagree?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
prof beard
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 18:43 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jun 26, 2005 16:51
Posts: 1323
Location: Stafford - a short distance past hope
For what it is worth: The polling was carried out by YouGov, who are highly respectable, and frequently used by government departments, independent researchers, and companies of all sorts. There is no reason to assume bias.

_________________
I won't slave for beggar's pay,
likewise gold and jewels,
but I would slave to learn the way
to sink your ship of fools
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
PeterE
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 18:45 
Offline
Friend of Safe Speed
Friend of Safe Speed
User avatar

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 23:09
Posts: 6737
Location: Stockport, Cheshire
glaikie wrote:
Have you got an example of an official govt. poll question that is

Quote:
so biased that anyone questioning the use of speed cameras is made to feel as though they are supporting child abuse.
?

IIRC the standard question is "Do you support the use of speed cameras as a means of reducing road casualties?" (or something very similar) which is a classic example of "begging the question".

_________________
"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Rigpig
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 18:56 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 09:59
Posts: 3544
Location: Shropshire
prof beard wrote:
For what it is worth: The polling was carried out by YouGov, who are highly respectable, and frequently used by government departments, independent researchers, and companies of all sorts. There is no reason to assume bias.


Well, not on this occaision when the result is favourable at least :wink:
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
glaikie
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 18:58 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 23:24
Posts: 94
Well, if you start from the premise that speed cameras are hazards at least you're being up front about your bias, I suppose.
Quote:
Q: Drivers are less aware of other hazards when they are looking out for speed cameras


And Table 22 is telling. The two most desired forms of speed limit enforcement are a satellite system of engine management and speed cameras!
Can we expect to see Safespeed revise its position in the light of this data?
Doozling research lads. Got any more? :D

_________________
Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Mole
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 18:59 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 18:54
Posts: 4036
Location: Cumbria
prof beard wrote:
For what it is worth: The polling was carried out by YouGov, who are highly respectable, and frequently used by government departments, independent researchers, and companies of all sorts. There is no reason to assume bias.


Sorry prof! I don't think that's the answer Glaikie was looking for!

Anyway, he's (sort of!) right - EVERY survey (that Cumbria Safety Camera Partnership has published) has shown the public to be in favour! :roll:
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
RobinXe
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 19:02 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Thu Nov 09, 2006 14:06
Posts: 3654
Location: Oxfordshire
Now hold on, the debate was the popular opinion of speed cameras. Popular opinion of speed cameras does nothing to affect their effectiveness, any more than popular opinion ever made the earth more flat!

Doozling logic there glaikie! Got any more? :lol:
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Rigpig
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 19:06 
Offline
Member
Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 20, 2004 09:59
Posts: 3544
Location: Shropshire
RobinXe wrote:
Now hold on, the debate was the popular opinion of speed cameras. Popular opinion of speed cameras does nothing to affect their effectiveness, any more than popular opinion ever made the earth more flat!


To be fair Robin, Glaikies first post about camera popularity was made in response to a comment by Spireman wondering when their unpopularity would lead to anarchy. His point seesm to be that if they are popular (whether effective or not), then they ain't going to lead to anarchy.
At that point the debate has got sidetracked into one of whether they really ARE popular or whether the polls that appear to show that they are do so because they contain loaded questions.

[Edit to add] But in a poll designed to indicate their popularity (and nothing else), the only question that is important is "Do you support the use of speed cameras on the UK's roads". Or words to that effect.
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
glaikie
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Dec 29, 2007 20:06 
Offline
User

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 23:24
Posts: 94
Chortle, that's priceless!
In the survey most supportive of the SS position on speed limits, the enforcement options most respondents wanted were satellite controlled engine management systems and speed cameras!
You couldn't make it up. :lol:

_________________
Will the last person to leave please turn out the lights?
Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 21
  [ 419 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 21  Next

Board index » Discussion Forums » Speed, Safety, Driving and The Law

All times are UTC [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 13 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You can post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.026s | 10 Queries | GZIP : Off ]