Safe Speed Forums

As you know Wildy usually flirts with "vonhosen" over the Milton case when it gets raised over on PH SP&L

Von usually responds with "Milton did not get off. He got done for dangerous driving". The court did return a guilty verdict but not a punishment. T

Well according to every "von" retort on the topic. But he did not get the ban that others would on basis "that he had suffered enough" or words to that effect from the paper reports we read.

Our take on the Milton case was that he was trained to a high level to those speeds. A car in such skilled hands as the likes of IG and his counterparts?

Normally safe enough. Normally on some "emergency which required presence 5 minutes ago"

But in this case? He was not on an emergency. He had a new top of the range Vectra which are actually rather pleasant cars to drive.

Well... such a skilled driver surely would not have been testing a car with which he was unfamiliar on a public road without first getting the approval of his guvnor in case it went "pear shaped".

I cannot remember if this car was marked or unmarked - but if the latter - then the public would have thought some "drunken loon behind the wheel" as 80 mph in a 30 mph zone with other traffic on it is just a bit OTT excessive. I cannot ever recall seeing any cop car travelling at that speed in urbania to be honest. There was no call for it. That's why I do not have much time for the Miltons in the Force. Especially when they published a photo of him brandishing a hair dryer

I think if we did prosecute the police more stringently for flouting the rules - then the "speed cam idiots would then be eating their own children" (corruption of a quote from a German play about Danton's Death) . It could lead to common sense returning.

Plus prosecuting cyclists for speeding in Richmond Park might be a good idea.

I hope the Tour's cyclists cause scams to froth on their route to Canterbury too. After all if speed's supposed to kill - none of them would be riding (I cannot go down there even though I wanted to. But I can tell you it's awsome to see these guys pedal past at a speed I could only dream of on my own bike. )

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Playing devils' advocate (again)...
"we already KNOW whats safe and we dont need a sign or a speedo to lecture us"
Shouldn't ...."in our own individual assessments" be added somewhere in that statement....?

Now, the $64,000 question ...would you rather drive on roads where there were millions of differing ideas of a safe speed?

I think why I would advocate some kind of skills update/assessment every so often to ensure bad habits don't kick in.

Like everything else in life which requires a skill - we learn, gain experience - but in our jobs we do not think it "demeaning" to go on refresher courses or any other course to enhance our skills. I do not see driving or cycling or biking as that much different

We need some guidelines all the same. But my job is to enforce the law and protect you folk out there by removing or bringing the potentially harmful to some justice. Now in the case of the dangerous - we are aggressive in our enforcement quest to stop them. In the case of the potentially harmful - depends on how potentially harmful they are to selves and others as to whether to give an informed COAST lecture or issue a penalty.

As for a can speed and get away with it.


I have to be on police business and prove to my guvs that such conduct was necessary. When we do a training exercise - we do an audit on the roads we intend to use and we are careful not to compromise safety of any other road user. These are fully monitored and all subject to a full debriefing afterwards.

We did admittedly slip up when our Inspector went a bit off course and forgot to tell the BiBs in that area about it that time. But it was still official business. Milton just decided to test that car. At the time - his Force had no clear guidelines in force and he thought he was in order to do so at the time. Events proved otherwise and whilst he got off the initial speeding charge, public outrage led to his facing a "dangerous" charge. He was in fact found guilty but teh court took into account his driving record, training and the actual conditions of this "test out of the Vectra" and decided not to ban him. I think he received a reprimand all the same - which ain't that good on your CV


But incidents happen no matter how good we may be., Training does help. Manners certainly help. Keeping calm no matter what definitely helps. COAST is a pretty good system for keeping things compliant wiht the law and safety all the same

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Ill concede to you that particular point, its something i automatically presumed to be obvious so i didnt feel it necessary to mention it.



We already do this everyday.
To me, i dont really see the speed limits anymore, i simply "drive".
I dont pay any attention to the speedo nowadays because im acutely aware that its of no significance to safe driving practice, some would argue that its essential to compliance with the law and that may be so, but i dont see that speed law has any right to determine my safety levels, thats my job not the laws, so ill ignore that too.
The fact that im not having near misses, crashes or other any other incidents indicates that i must be doing something right, no one is that lucky, yet my speed levels are dynamically changing up and down above and below the limits.
The speed limit in my opinion is an unnecessary irrelevance and a distraction from the business at hand: Crash avoidance.
If my current technique works then i shall stick by it, regardless of what the law decrees, because the law is wrong, like it or not.

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Believe nothing- Question everything.

I think you mean the way it appears to being enforced. by automation. I do agree that this method seems to be more resented than a police officer pulling a motorist At least you know why and you cannot claim you were not driving and getting into more trouble.

But just heard quite a witty routine from a Canadian comedian who was doing a stand up routine on the lack of speed limit signs on motorways yet seeing a camera every 40 yards

In reply to an imaginary pull by a police officer and being asked the speed limit. He replied "110".

On the reply "No it's 70 mph" He replied "You're kidding me! No one is driving at that speed!"

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

I agree entirely InGear.

I very deeply resent being subjected to a law that is so obviously out of skew with what the vast majority accept as reasonable driving behaviour.

I would be less resentful if as you suggest it was being enforced by cops with a degree of discretion, so that if the speed was deemed unreasonable or some other aspect of driving was dodgy to the officers eyes, then fine, it takes it from that robo-crap level onto a human interaction and can be more reasonably dealt with.

Its been a while since i was actually stopped by any officers at all, the last time i was i admit, well in excess of the signs, however i wasnt pulled for that it was an anpr failure to read the front plate that attracted them.
Although the officers following me tried to do the "shove em faster" trick i didnt, i slowed down until he put his lights on at which point id already reached the "trap" ahead and had a brief discussion with the senior officer on the scene who did query my speed.
I simply stated that i didnt know what speed i was travelling as i was keeping my eyes ahead, where the danger was going to be not stuck on some clock in the dash and he seemed to understand that entirely.
I didnt face any penalties for my transgression of the " in stone" limits and the officer allowed me on my way, as a result of his reasonable actions i actually have slowed my top speeds. Full respect to the guy.
If that had been a camera nip in the post, no discussion etc, id have done just the opposite.
If im going to be judged, itll be by my fellow human beings, not some bloody robotic shite pile on a stick or some scameravan parasite.

Cops yes, cameras NO!

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"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

I think this is the issue. People are social creatures. They are used to inter-acting with fellow humans - even if on the wrong side of the law.


We do use the tools available to us. We do prosecute traffic offences too. Somehow though, we appear to have safer roads by keeping a firm police intelligence around the area per the stats. We admit that there's always room for improvement all the same.


The difference? We can and do tell the person why we stopped them and we do try to give that person some advice as to how to improve their skills. They can take or leave this advice. It's up to them.

Generally, we are used to the "Go catch a real criminal" and some swearing. I like to think a real professional will accept that this is perhaps more frustration, guilt and fear of penalty points and insurance hike being displayed. When younger and on patrols, I used to ask my customers if they now felt better for getting their anger off their chest. Then discuss why I pulled them and what action I had decided to take. Generally, this seems to be what goes on out there around here where we do not rely on cams/partnerships, but on intelligent policing with real professional decision-making.

Oh - there are complaints that we are "out to get folk" all the same. No. We are out to get the dangerous off the roads. We do have pockets of boy racers and born again bikers who cause us severe migraine - but I think we are beginning to see some relief for our cluster headaches.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Absolutely. It makes a massive difference to have the interaction with a person, even if youve been copped out by your own sillyness.
Its far better to have this interaction than have it remotely dealt with by an "infallible" ( yeah right!) system of scameras and so called "safety" camera partnerships. theyre the ones doing the damage to police/public relations more than any other single thing i can think of.



I would always wish to see a cop on the streets, traffic or not, it impresses a presence that simply dosent exist with robot enforcement, its more effective. Also, you cant ask a scamera for directions.....




Thats just another reason to have you guys out there.
Cameras dont give advice, they soley give out points and a fine and for me thats the absolute best way to rub your public up the wrong way.



Ha ha! Yeah youll always get the ones who swear and give it the large, but that goes with the territory i think and in any case some people are predisposed to not accepting they were either doing something that drew the unwanted attention, or that they wont take advice. Too bad for them.
The boy racer aspect is a pain to be sure. We have a "gang" of these pricks up the street who've recently passed their tests ( how?) who have rapidly degenerated into wheelspins and no seat-belt behaviours and dubious cornering habits- youre always going to have problems getting attitudes to change when dealing with these types of "driver".
Lets hope they learn and "get with it" before they do the usual trick of wiping out someone else.
We can live in hope i suppose.

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"Safety" Scamera Partnerships;
Profitting from death and misery since 1993.

Believe nothing- Question everything.

I prefer to ask a fireman for directions Failing that - a postman

They have more of clue where we are!

Once was on a shout as a young cop. Had no idea where I was supposed to go., Saw postie who gave me the right info.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

IMHO, I beg to differ.

I'm sure we have all heard how these days the new generation have much poorer human interaction skills because of the massive games culture and mobile phones.

Some of this new generation will join the police force

Even I spend time, I'm ashamed to say, emailing someone who is in the same department as myself.

It's not good...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.