Safe Speed Forums

i really worry about your patients!

in case you didn't know the primary purpose of a GPS/SatNav in a vehicle is for directions which suprise surprise is what i use it for. if i wanted an extra large digital speedo then i'd have bought a citroen.

the only time i have looked at the GPS speed is when i wanted to see just how far out the analogue speedo was, and as i stated in a previous post it is about 3-4mph out, gaining slightly more accuracy at he 70mph speed when 68 is indicated!

and before you divert onto how dangerous i must be by (obviously / clearly / definitely) having a GPS sticking on my windscreen obscuring my vision, i don't!

But you have condemned everyone else'sdroiving stats. I have been driving from age 18 und been IAM since age 21. Am now in early 40s (have 18 year old son... may pass for late 20s on eye ... but unless I was a gymslip Mama...

But apart from someone being ill und driving into me whilst I was stationary - not had accident or caused one ... nor has Mad Doc, IG or anyone in our family. But that does not mean it could never happen - und you are carrying on about your perfect driving.... never seeding yet being tailgated .. und also stating others could not possibly benefit from any education/
Now have another read of all your posts to date ... und you will see why we think it smack of complacency.

You still have not said what POWER stand for - und if you had IAM as you claim - you would have defined it. Ist after all on page One of Road Craft - which you claim to have read

Ach - und by the way - Road Craft also tell how to deal with tailgater. You claim to be tailgated - IAM drivers do have defensives und safe way to diffuse this. All you do ist complain these people are "speeding"




Und where might that be, not that cycling place by any chance?



Read your own posts again. In cold light of day.

You called people "miltiant speeders" und you have been asked to provide the post which lead you to this conclusion, You cannot - because there ist not one.

You claim after some pressing to have IAM - yet you do not know what POWER stands for...

You make personal attacks und see any criticism as a "threat und insult as well" - yet when ist pointed out to you that you are doing what you accuse everyone else of doing... you have the




Please do read this book - page one und whilst you are about it - do pruchase a copy of Cycle Craft - pafge 50 tell you in pictures how to COAST

Und also - for someone who can judge speed ... feel speed und say they never speed - you still have not said why you need the GPS speedo in car either

ist for same reason as everyone else in Lancs...

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

I must say that this worries me. I really think we have to find a way of leaving folk with the impression that they have been treated with appropriate respect. Neither do I want people to feel that they have been 'avalanched' with Safe Speed messages.

I don't know Jec, I'm sorry you haven't had a better experience. Please try and stick around while I look into it.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Pull the other one. I have Sat Nav - und if you can feel the speed as you say - you still would not need one to even check how far out your speedo ist. Und if depend how old your car as to reliability of speedo as well.

Und ist funny how it suddenly become Sat NAv und not GPS when you are pushed for answer as well

If it were SatNav only - you would have referred to it that way.

By the way - did you not know that these are also compromising safety as folk fiddle with them ...

Und I would be careful if I were you explaining this to a French gendarme - they tend to destroy first und ask quwestions later



Then your GPS ist exactly the same as mine... it give me the speed und the directions und bleeps at hazards - including cams.




I never said you did - but there ist research around which question these gadgets. Mine came with the car by the way... ist not on my dash

We pay the little extra ... those French get very tetchy if they see something on the dash..

But again - you are the one leaping around und making the personal insults und seeing criticism where none was really made in first place.

Und that is also sign of complacency und arrogance too

No one criticised your driving in the first place. It was pointed out to you that you do not know the road in Cumbria as well as Ern und selvss do - und ist because we liver there - drive on these roads daily und we see some pretty odd things from the tourists all the time too.

I suggest you read your posts again. They are all about your driving ...how you are so perfect ....und never ever had accidnet in 10 years of driving.


There ist always a first time und I would never claim to that no one will ever collide with me just because I drive for longest time without incident. Ist 15 years since the smash... ist 10 years since I redid each test - back to standards und level of competence pre-incident. Never been stopped for anything... licence still "virginal" in cleanness - never had incident - but I would never dream of going around thinking nothing could happen because of safety led driving on my part alone.

The difference between others on here und you ist as said - we all discuss to learn something ... und all you are doing ist constantly telling us how perfect you are un ... und in case of Ings/Bannerigg - we know these roads extremely well as we live in this area.

You also condemn education und training - und then claim to have done this training yourself

Nor do we say all drivers abroad are dangerous tailgaters - ist not our experience of this... but then we keep to L1 und use the L2/L3 when we wish to overtake. Have never ever expeienced a tailgater in L1 to date in any one country I have driven in. So again - find this odd sweeping comment which just does not ring true to me... und we drive very very often abroad.



Sorry - but your attitude etc just does not seem to add up.

If yo9u are tailgated as you claim - or meet as many bad drivers as you claim - then your IAM training should help you deal und diffuse this - und you have more awareness of what we are saying about our rurals as well.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien!

So you get the strop on when somebody passes comment about your driving based on what they have read of your posts here, and you then go on to do exactly the same thing yourself.
Go on then, I'll bite........

What exactly is a "militant speeder" in your eyes, and how exactly do I qualify for that award?

_________________
What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

As far as I'm concerned, that's the problem. Unless I've missed a few points you haven't "explained" anything - you've told us that we should all stick to the limit because that'sthe law of the land. You've told us that (in your opinion) you're a good driver because that's what you do.

What I want to know is WHY things will be necessarily any better if everyone sticks to the limits (or less). Your message is the same as the Scamera partnerships - kill your speed and things will get better. Well, that doesn't actually appear to be the case. If you can explain WHY (nearly) all the camera partnerships claim great reductions in KSIs as a result of more ruthless speed enforcement policies and yet the number of KSIs nationally doesn't go down much, do you not accept that we (as a nation) might be barking up the wrong tree?

We would be quick to claim that any small improvements that we're seeing in road safety on a national level are down to improvements in car design, impovements in road design, whatever, but I'd struggle to prove this so I haven't made those claims in this argument. What I want to see is your PROOF that the current vogue for over-zealous speed limit enforcement is giving ANY benefits WHATSOEVER!

Couldn't agree more Paul.



Forgive me Mole, I'm just using this as an example; I realise you were just answering Jec directly in this particular instance. IMHO, people who come here to question the SS argument don't have to explain anything, its the SS group that needs to do the explaining and question answering. Unfortunately its often a lot easier to turn someones question around and throw it back at them, than to answer it directly; multiply this by 20 or 30 (regular posters) and stir it up with an 'I'm not answering your question until you answer mine' attitude and you piss them off in double quick time.
Are they won over?
Not bloomin likely!

I'm not sure what jec expected. If you wade into a forum and start insulting the membership you normally get called a troll and banned in short order.

Fact is we humoured her and answered her questions, which have already been answered a hundred times if she cared to look around the site.

Did she expect us all to say "oh, you are right, we were wrong all along"?

HE, (jec), talks most of the time about biking and how wonderful HE is at riding perfectly, yet in HIS last few posts, HE is talking about his car and driving.

I think it's a bloke pretending to be a lass to emanate false sympathy!

I believe the tone of some replies serves as a catalyst to winding people up.



On the other hand Homer mate, do you expect everyone who comes here and has a read through the various fora to have their questions answered, make their first post 'I've seen the light, you are right and I am wrong"?
We don't all think the same way, such is human nature.

Exactly mole.

Wildy picked up on some comments... jec says she looks through the windows of lines of parked cars in case the driver gets out or there is a pedestrian on the pavement. As we know from a past IG posts and Wildy;s about "COAST" in action - there is a bit more to COAST skills than this -= and jec has not mentioned them at all.



She posts this about Ings - and takes zero note of Ern's point that we've had more incidents there since the cams arrived than previously and the point the two crashes which occurred - and formed the basis for the scams - were not even sspeed related.





The road was NSL and changed on the decision to the famous 7 in the pub...

Lot of people are caught here - perhaps more on the way out of the National Park than entering




Yep - why we stess COAST. This road is 40 mph all the same. Why we stress indicating your turn...But the run into the limit change is tight and we suspect this cam cops the blips and bot the blats anyway

But prior to the cams - we had vans parked on pavements and hidden behind some foliage...




This is where it seems you come across as saying there are less hazards on the NSL as it goes into the hilly sections.

You also say throughout your posts you drive "dead on the speed limit" and get all huffy when picked up on this - and then more or less post exactly what the people you claim to be "miltitant speeders" post.

You also claim to use a GPS - when challenged - you then claim it's a Sat Nav.

Well :scratcchin: Not all Sat Nav feature speedos and it is an "optional extra" for some models.


Tom Tom, Garmin, Mio all come to mind - unless of course your are using the RA Sat Nave which combines RA with a Nav system

Besides - you seem to be more defensive and seeing insults where there ain't any.

Wildy commented on of the aspects of your claims - namely that you appear to think the NSL bits of the National Park are thus NSL "because there are fewer hazards"

Very few NSL roads whereby you cruise at 60 mph anyway... and you keep saying you drive at the limit.

You came back with a rant claiming folk "criticised your driving" when all was really pointed out that you appeared to be posting that you would drive at NSL "because this was the limit and there are "less hazards in the hilly bit beyond Ings - which is where the "one or both of driver faults" ocurred anyway.

You forget Ern is a local chap...

Of course it smacks of "complacency" to post as a cintinuum - "I never ever break a speed limit - ergo I am an excellent driver and you cannot teach me anything,

So you say... but I am driving on these roads and I see people driving on a fluctuate to 10%-4 to 10-%+ 6 on any one journey - but very few at a constant unless cruising on a straight motorway or dual.


So ...


your driving will be no different than to anyone else's around here speed wise - and hazard wise - you come back with good practice after the faults have been pointed out by and large here




Well - exactly why we need the likes of IG's, Ian's and Stephen's chums to cop these people. Perhaps you would like to explain how a camera deters these people as I have not seen much evidence.

Read any newspaper about any hit and run - even the ones they caught on CCTV ... they still have not caught these people.

Perhaps a few more trafpol may detect them in their unregistered dangrerous heaps before they kill anyone.



Again - a very good reason why we need traffic police and not automation. Most of these "respectables" who may blat because they are late for work and just push the envelope at little to make up time are more than likely to be receptive to a police chat anyway.




[quote="jec"
An interesting read may be Bike magazine doing a feature on 3 speeders who took a advanced course - the 'lad' of the group didn't want to know and thought he was better than everyone. i suggest this happens all over the place and is probably the highest risk crash group who all the education in the world won't make a blind bit of difference [/quote]

So - you keep chipping away with COAST. Perhaps some or more of the course filtered through to him anyway. Certainly - if he did not wish to learn - then perhaps he failed the test anyway - and this might have been the sobering up factor


[quote="mole"
What I want to know is WHY things will be necessarily any better if everyone sticks to the limits (or less). Your message is the same as the Scamera partnerships - kill your speed and things will get better. Well, that doesn't actually appear to be the case. If you can explain WHY (nearly) all the camera partnerships claim great reductions in KSIs as a result of more ruthless speed enforcement policies and yet the number of KSIs nationally doesn't go down much, do you not accept that we (as a nation) might be barking up the wrong tree?[/quote]

Nope - not reducing. They all claim reductions - so this being the case - you expect a massive reduction and not just 400 less nationally in a year which was fairly tranquil weather wise as well.

But in some areas it goes up.

[quote="mole"]
We would be quick to claim that any small improvements that we're seeing in road safety on a national level are down to improvements in car design, impovements in road design, whatever, but I'd struggle to prove this so I haven't made those claims in this argument. What I want to see is your PROOF that the current vogue for over-zealous speed limit enforcement is giving ANY benefits WHATSOEVER![/quote]

The only improvement factor as such is thaat the crumple zones appear to give rise to that advert's slogan. Once upon a time a hit at 30 mph would kill. These days - the crumple zone means that the impact is not quite as hard and thus gives a little more chance of survival - but not that much.


But it is still a single focus - and accidents - fatal ones - occur just as easily and just as often at and below any speed limit - and driver COAST error/Twoccers/drink/drugs all seem to feature in all reports of these accidents.

And despite the vogue - not seen much evidence of people driving slowly - unless they see camera, or the odd policeman

Oh - and since I have not been overly "held up" by someone keeping to just below the speed limit all the time...she may claim never to speed ... but she'd still be driving in same flow - which could be fluctuating as constant from marginally below to marginally above.

Never been in any flow which held "dead on" - even though rouhgly "compliant"

_________________
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Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

It's hardly surprising that new posters, who express a view contrary to those held by a certain hardcore of SafeSpeed regulars, are left feeling frustrated. It might appear to the casual visitor of these boards that the New Labour machine that helped them win in 1997, the Rapid Rebuttal Unit, has found a new lease of life at SafeSpeed. Within moments of a 'Why can't you keep within the limit?" type question appearing on the boards, the rapid rebuttal unit swings into action. It begins with a flurry of posts inviting the poor, misguided poster to read a selection of interminably long texts hosted in the dark recesses of the SafeSpeed site. Having been distracted by the mind-bending experience of exploration, the hapless poster returns to the thread to be greeted by a volley of troll warnings and counter questions. As the poster attempts to respond calmly with logic and reason, the main offensive is yet to come. Soon, the COAST theme gets an outing and members of that old comedy favourite 'The Oil family', start to pump out their relentless long-winded euro-dialogues that I’m sure many gave up reading long ago. These posts are littered with irritating emoticons and peppered with references that only long-timers and those in the 'in crowd' can appreciate, making them unintelligible and ambiguous to the unfamiliar. Coupled with a further barrage of counter questioning mixed with arguments that wouldn’t bear scrutiny, the newbie gets some thinly veiled slurs on his character and ends up overwhelmed, frustrated and confused. The original question barely gets considered and the original poster either gives up or is eventually run out of town. This is hardly an example of good practice for a forum that claims to welcome honest, open and reasoned debate. I’m glad you consider it a problem Paul.

exactly

i am left with a distinctly sour feeling at being 'told' what i do by someone who doesn't have the first clue about me.

i've been TOLD:

1. that i don't observe speed limits
2. that i don't know what COAST, etc is
3. that i DEFINITELY use my GPS for speed purposes purely based on the fact that I call it a GPS and not SatNav.
4. that i'm complacent becuase i made a statement that i'd not had a crash in 10 years/am an IAM member/BMF member/whatever..
5. that i treat speed limits as targets.

i get the distinct feeling the outcome would have been a lot different had i come in and said "i hate cameras, they undermine blah blah blah" or something along the lines of the "safespeed" message PRIOR to mentioning how i apply my skills in driving/riding.

this is my final post anyway, i see no reason to visit here any longer to have a character assasination by people who don't know me in the slightest.

good day and safe driving.

starfin - the lady claims "she never speeds" - - well anyone who drives knows that speed will fluctuate in any one journey.

She then refers to a GPS - - this then turns into a Sat Nav"only" when challenged.

When challenged to speak up a bit more about her driving - she does mention good practice - per COAST - but still not discussing anything but "how perfect her driving is because she never speeds"
and how everyone else is speeding - which seems to prove that cams are not working.

And as we all know there is much more to good safe driving than sticking rigidly to the speed limit.

She claimed to drive at the speed limit and in one post even suggests "there are less hazards in the hilly bit beyond Ings." Only when challenged on this does she mention the brow of the hill and says she keeps to the left because someone coming towards her is speeding "on wrong the side of the road"

You cannot say there are less hazards in the NSL either side beyond Ings either - but the road is still safe at NSL as you head to the M6 - but not necessarily as you head into the National Park.

We are seeing a few drivers straddling the whites for some reason - some of it down to potholes on their side of the road when I had a look-see at one point.

But...


Each hill and brow is different anyway and your road position would be per the road in question, whether or not a cyclist/rambler is around - and you would be scanning as far ahead as possible towards the ever moving limit points. She took the hump when this was pointed out as well.

But it's not about "Why can't you keep to the limit" It's the "I am the safest driver in the world because I never ever speed" attitude.

And "education does not benefit anyone" attitude as well.

Plus the accusations of "militant speeders" and she still cannot pin point any one post to substantiate this from anyone - apart from the ones who got short shrift - like mattsta - in the past

By the way - where do I say I speed here (apart from tracks and Germany ... where I can )

No one can claim they never ever speed. Road surface, basic human ability to be 100% in tune at all times cannot do this and even when they tested the computerised car - they found it did not behave that much differently on slow down to limit changes.

And keeping to a speed limit does not make someone super safe
either.

By the way - niether my wife, slef or IG made personal remarks at jec - but she made a number at Gixxer, Peter and others.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

We have long discussed these issues. If there was an easy answer we would have found it and used it long ago.

Feelings are running high and opinions are entrenched. The debate is swamped with dogma. Much of my work has cut through the dogma, but that has left us with good answers to challenges AND NO MORE.

In some ways it could be nice if the forum was a 'puppet show' We could have model or even imaginary posters giving polite and helpful replies to new visitors. But of course that would be so contrived and false that it would be useless as a genuine discussion forum. We HAVE to be open, and people HAVE to be free to express their opinions. And that's where the trouble starts...

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Hi Mog

Can I just ask with all respect and sincerity, why did Jec have to be challenged about her own driving; didn't she come here to question the SS srgument?

You accused other people of being militant speeders without having the ifrst cluse about them.



Where?

You say you stick to them regardless...and you may stick to them but that does not mean much. Might be too dangerous to be at the limit. You may find you need to accelrated a little to rach a gap if some muppet in L1 decides to accelerate for some reason - or you need to get out of the way for some other muppet approaching at speed from behind.

Might be too dangerous to be at the limit - you may need to be well below it.

But you did say several times that your GPS says you are "dead on the limit" all the time - and this was a worrying statement as it seems to imply you are fixated by keeping to the limit at all times regardless.




Well - you said you look through windows when passing parked cars. No mention of whether or not you give a glance beneath them for a ball or foot

You have not described a drive or a road condition as such - only that you drive at the speed limit all the time and are thus a superaltively good driver - but have not read anything to suggest you evaluate your drives afterwards - objectively .





Sat Nav do what they say on the tin - give you directions. There are optional extras - which is what you appear to have. And since you check your speed against this device - this is only the same as everyone on here does. If you were that sure as you claimed over and over in each post - you would not need to - that was all that was pointed out to you



Sorry - but this really is complacent. You cannot say that just because you have not had a crash in 10 years that you never will - or that you will never cause one either.

Nobody can claim this. You appear to have taken the hump at what is really a basic home truth for everyone.


Crashes happen for a variety of reasons. You cannot say that someone will never change lanes on you suddenly or that a biker/cyclist will never run into conflict with you. You can never be sure someone will never sidesweep or rear end you either.

You can never be sure that you will never make one mistake - even at the speed limit or hovering just below it. To claim this is both arrogant and complacent .

For record - been driving now for 30 years - most of it IAM etc. Never had a crash or incident either - but I would never say there's nothing to learn nor would I rule out possibility of any slight collision either.

I do take care on each drive that we are safety led and if something did worry me - I do think about why it did so and how my "Plan" to avoid affect another and if there was anything to learn about self and driving from this.

Have not read anything in your posts which seem to indicate you do this - other than taking the hump when someone dares point out some flaws in your logic.



Well - you did make that comment over the hilly bit and less hazards in the NSL past Ings - and you do seem to say you keep "dead to the limit" most of the time with no fluctuation



Nope - you would still have been challenged over sweeping statements claiming you never break a speed limit - on the basis that unless you are using cruise control (and even then you can over-ride it) - not possible based on varying road surfaces and and simple human body control which will shift movement and pressure as constant.

this is my final post anyway, i see no reason to visit here any longer to have a character assasination by people who don't know me in the slightest.

good day and safe driving.[/quote]

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

:clap:

Personal retorts do not in any way substantiate any argument, safespeed or otherwise.

Hi Jeff!

We did not actually challenge her about here own driving. Wildy passed a comment over comments she made about her driving - namely that she never breaks a limit and is dead on the limit all the time "per her GPS" - and there was the comment about less hazards in the NSLs around here.


She took this to be a negative.


And we got the "how dare you criticise my driving" reaction when all was pointed out was that there are not less hazards in the hilly bit beyond Ings - and that she seemed to imply that OK to drive "at the speed limit" by default as no further qualification to her comment was made

She also made a sweeping statement that education does not help. Yet she did an IAM - but seems to disagree that education from the start can help - and we still think some kind of assessment - including medical will be a good move. Another death in Manchester down to "heart attack at wheel". Sure you never know - we do know one chap who was joking with his wife .before setting off with a mate to a DIY store .. was a passenger in this case - but he had a fatal heart attack before they reached the store. I think all the more reason to have regular checks - only we ain't got the medics or the money - and I doubt the collective out there would wish to pay the taxes and NIC for all this either. Of course - fine money could have been better spent than investing in daft non-jobs and erectiing forests of cams with no real tangible or visible improvements in actual driving standards

Sure - we have the unteachables but speed cams and zero trafpol are not going to take these out of the equation - are they? However, I would never write anyone off either - and you do not know how some will react to firmer education either. Currently fostering a 15 year old "with attitude and a heap of baggage" Why we were up most of last night and why we have deferred our trip to a relative until later .. I think I got through to him - sort of..... he raided our drinks cabinet....

Not the easiest of situations we've been in ... Got the full blast of his cheek and then he threw up all over me ... Still trying to work out how the hell we goofed up on this one - and he got the key to the drinks cabinets. Dammit - he downed my best single malt...


Still - on the bright side - he sure feels ill today Maybe... I can get through to this chap. (By the way - he has a certain history with - er cars....

Another reason why we are concerned about his getting through our "security" here. We are evaluating what we did wrong!)


Then we had the "keep left" on the hill. comment etc.... All roads and hills and corners vary - and you need to adjust road position to establish the fuller picture. Her comment appeared to be "to avoid the muppet straddling the whites on the down" I am coming across these muppets on straight urbans and apart from one pot hole to justify one such case ... seen little else to explain this worrying phenonemum.

And Wildy pointed out that there's more to looking to check some muppet will not door you as you pass parked cars. Looking through the windows only to check the pavements just ain't enough. You have to glance beneath the car and look for any sign of the muppet trying to cross between the parked cars - can be a little as a silhoutted shadow on a road surface if the sun's shing in the right place. You look for everything as far as you are able. She just came back on the defensive instead of trying to work out what we might have been trying to draw out of her beyond "I never speed"

But the point was that you adjust according to circumstance and she seemed to post this as "her normal drive" on appraoch to the brow of a hill. No mention of warning "toot" to let the oncomer know she's there either.

She mentioned she checks to a GPS . Nothing wrong with this .. we all do if we have them - we glance if approaching a camera to make sure.. but then that's because it bleeps at us. Sometimes we need to make a slight adjustemtns and sometimes we don't - depends on the road and condition - and usually we are about the 33/4 mph mark in a 30 mph so we just ease to 29 mph to be sure - but for someone who claims never to speed and then say she checks her speed to a GPS regularly - she was asked why she needs one and when challenged - claims it to be just a Sat Nav and not cam detector (except that the speedo/cam is optional on a few makes -and not all makes have speedos! Most do include the limits on the roads and tell you though as part of the directions ) and then went off on one about being challenged as to the dangers of these as well..

Wildy just mentioned that there is some research which would appear to raise some safety aspects of fiddling with them whilst on the move.

_________________
If you want to get to heaven - you have to raise a little hell!

Smilies are contagious
They are just like the flu
We use our smilies on YOU today
Now Good Causes are smiling too!

KEEP SMILING
It makes folk wonder just what you REALLY got up to last night!

Smily to penny.. penny to pound
safespeed prospers-smiles all round! !
But the real message? SMILE.. GO ON ! DO IT! and the world will smile with you!
Enjoy life! You only have the one bite at it.

Right - weell this is the post which appeared to lead to jec going off on one - claiming there was negative criticism of her driving.

Wildy talks about the German version which she learned at aged 18 at the start of her driving.

Nothing negative there then




Yep - can agree witht he last comment in particular



Not criticism or attack here.. Wildy is just commenting that too many gadgets undermine our own skills and judgements.

You have to use them sparingly and not learn to rely on them too much - and keep up skills in all fields. After all if you do not use skills - you lose them. I bet bet since Excel took over as the main spreadsheet - people would struggle if then presented with an old Lotus 123 sheet.

We forget things as we get used to new doo-dahs ...
Her jec questions education. My reply was slightly differnt to Wildy's as we all know there are the "unteachables" but we are still not addressing the problem with automated speed enforcement either.



Again - Ern ist completely correct... und you really have no idea or concept of true safe driving und I think you should contact your IAM asap as you come across as a bit complacent und have no real idea of true safety... {/quote]

Again there is no negative criticism of yoru driving - more your comments as you seem to think education or some training should not be given to at least try to address our problems on the road. You only mentioned your IAM membership after this as well as your previous posts up until this point were about how you never speed and how this makes you a brilliant driver.. which was not taking in the broader picture of true comprehensive safety.

Thus Wildy suggested IAM you contact the IAM and it's only after this post that you claim to be a member as well.

You came back with "How dare you criticise my driving£ and went off again about how well YOU drive and not what makes safe driving for all

You also kept referring to a GPS and were asked to clarify.


You also gave some further examples of your driving and most IAM drivers will have some driving plan to diffuse and return to a safety led approach as well. As for the "keeping left on a hill" for example - was only pointed out to you that no hill nor brow of a hill is alike - and that you adjust your plan and re-position according to the cirumstances .

You mentioned some COAST skills and Wildy agreed you were using them but she also asked you to expand on some items. Yoour driving was not challenged - your comments were. And as for people making negaitve comments - Wildy simply pulled you for doing exactly what you were accusing eveyone else of doing.



Yet again - you chose to see this a insult or negative criticism and came back with a lot of personal remarks - some rather insulting as well - and nothing overly personal was actually posted back to you. Just clarification of your driving - which you mentioned as examples of our own superiority in any case and did not like being probed to expand more as there were some questions over this. . My wife did retaliate by recommending Oil of Evening Primrose and a warm bath - but this was only after a number of personal insults coming from yourself in any case.

hardly insulting In any case you made more than your fair share of personal remarks to Wildy - and we still have not seen any substance to your claims of "militant speeders" nor have yoou highlighted one comment made by the posters concerned which leads to this odd conclusion in any case.

So - plenty of unprovoked attacks from you ... little substance to back your views apart from "I neve speed, have never had a crash in 10 years etc./"

And what's 10 years anyway? A very short space of time in reality given you can be driving for 60 years in a life time.


Just because you have been lucky like the rest of us so far - does not mean you "know it all because of IAM/no points so far" John Marsh on Wogan got them after 40 years of clean driving ...."yards into the changed limit" according to the comments and banter on the show,


By they way as she was posting last night - I was going several "!rounds" in the background with the foster and trying to retrieve my single malt from him. We are gonna be in doo-dahs over this as well as we knew there were problems and we goofed up badly on basic security of keys to the cabinet here.. though in fairness - he could easily have picked the locks. Tis an antique thing.

We are going to have to go total teetotal I think...

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