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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 15:47 
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This article appeared in the Daily Telegraph on 5th May, 2009. I found myself nodding in agreement as I read it, especially the parts I've emboldened.


Link to Telegraph article on website: http://tinyurl.com/cc9jjo

Quote:
"Ministers argue that festooning our highways with speed cameras makes them even safer. The evidence suggests otherwise."

One area of Government policy that is an unalloyed success, requiring no spin or statistical legerdemain from Downing Street, is the pursuit of motorists who break the speed limit. We report today that the revenue from speed traps has trebled (as has the number of speed cameras) since Labour came to power, and now rakes in £88 million a year, or £167 a minute. That figure will grow. The number of speed cameras continues to increase, while the Government last month announced fresh fixed-penalty opportunities, with plans to lower the speed limit to 20mph in residential areas and to 50mph on single-carriageway trunk roads.

For decades, this country has had some of the safest roads in the world. Ministers argue that festooning our highways with speed cameras makes them even safer. The evidence suggests otherwise. While we have installed more speed cameras than anywhere else in Europe, the decline in road deaths in Britain has actually been less marked than in other, less camera-obsessed countries.

This should come as no surprise: speed cameras, for all the protestations of the Government and police, have always had more to do with revenue generation than with road safety. Official figures show that excessive speed is a factor in just six per cent of accidents. How many cameras are usefully sited near schools and in residential areas – where they really would aid road safety – compared with the number on open roads, where motorists are tempted to drive quickly because it is safe to do so? Very few.

The suspicion that drivers are being hounded with an assiduity that is not brought to the pursuit of burglars, muggers or hooligans has helped diminish respect for the police in the eyes of the law-abiding majority. That is a high price to pay for this money-grubbing policy.



Let's hope that as Labour fades (the "New" part is already gone as of Budget Day) into the history books, the relationship between police and public can be restored.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 18:34 
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DieselMoment wrote:
Official figures show that excessive speed is a factor in just six per cent of accidents.[/b]



Any article that extrudes this to assert that speed above the limit is not a factor in 94 percent of accidents has already travelled into the realms of fantasy.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 19:01 
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weepej wrote:
Any article that extrudes this to assert that speed above the limit is not a factor in 94 percent of accidents has already travelled into the realms of fantasy.

Forget articles, how about DfT compilations from STATS19 accident reports:

Attachment:
RCGB2007_limits.PNG [3.73 KiB]
Downloaded 725 times

[source: RCGB2007, P44]
So I guess you were right; that figure is actually 97%.

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 21:16 
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weepej wrote:
DieselMoment wrote:
Official figures show that excessive speed is a factor in just six per cent of accidents.[/b]



Any article that extrudes this to assert that speed above the limit is not a factor in 94 percent of accidents has already travelled into the realms of fantasy.


is it the standard of your posts that is declining or my tolerance of them?


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 22:39 
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civil engineer wrote:
weepej wrote:
DieselMoment wrote:
Official figures show that excessive speed is a factor in just six per cent of accidents.[/b]



Any article that extrudes this to assert that speed above the limit is not a factor in 94 percent of accidents has already travelled into the realms of fantasy.


is it the standard of your posts that is declining or my tolerance of them?


Well, it is difficult to prove.

One way of doing it would be to have an alternate universe, and replay crashes there but have the driver/s enter the arena at the speed limit (instead of the speed limit +X) and see what happens. If the crash was less severe, or didn't happen at all then you've got to concede the extra speed on top of the limit was a factor.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 23:01 
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weepej wrote:
One way of doing it would be to have an alternate universe, and replay crashes there but have the driver/s enter the arena at the speed limit (instead of the speed limit +X) and see what happens. If the crash was less severe,

... then exceeding the speed limit was not a contributory factor towards causing the crash!

weepej wrote:
or didn't happen at all then you've got to concede the extra speed on top of the limit was a factor.

Yeah,
Attachment:
RCGB2007_limits.PNG [3.73 KiB]
Downloaded 676 times
[source: RCGB2007, P44]

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 23:29 
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Steve wrote:
... then exceeding the speed limit was not a contributory factor towards causing the crash!


If the crash is less severe it is contributory, the faster the car was going the more severe the crash is likely to be.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 23:32 
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weepej wrote:
Steve wrote:
... then exceeding the speed limit was not a contributory factor towards causing the crash!


If the crash is less severe it is contributory, the faster the car was going the more severe the crash is likely to be.


And if the car doesn't crash it could break the sound barrier and still be safe! Speed is irrelevant. Avoiding accidents improves safety, reducing speed increases complacency


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 23:43 
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Also, I feel I should add, Weepej completely fails to take in any information, or indeed trys to establish any background to any scenario. As an example to this I wonder what Weepej would say about a little scenario I had this morning:
Going through a rural village, with narrow lanes my speedometer was reading 45. A school party was just completing crossing the road, I swerved around them and gave a wave to the crossing patrol woman, someone I know well, she waved back in a friendly manner.

Weepej - assess the above and give me your thoughts.


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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 23:52 
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weepej wrote:
Steve wrote:
... then exceeding the speed limit was not a contributory factor towards causing the crash!


If the crash is less severe it is contributory, the faster the car was going the more severe the crash is likely to be.

Then by your clever logic, all collisions have speed as a contributory factor, even where someone simply walks into a car and falls over - reductio ad absurdum.

Perhaps it is more likely that your definitions are simply unreasonable!

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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 23:57 
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Vigilance by all . COAST by all will reduce road user error.

It also reduces speed by default. :wink:

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 18:01 
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Steve wrote:
... then exceeding the speed limit was not a contributory factor towards causing the crash!


So we have a secondary cause - i.e. it affects only severity of outcome !


weepej wrote:
If the crash is less severe it is contributory, the faster the car was going the more severe the crash is likely to be.


Which comes back to my arguments regarding primary and secondary causes of accidents.

Remove a primary cause and the accident cannot happen

Remove a secondary cause and the best you'll ever get is a reduction in severity of outcome.

This technique has been used in accident investigation for the last 100 years at least yet when it comes to 'road safety' we keep throwing out the window. :roll:

So why are we diverting resources away from removing primary causes and spending so much time, money and resources on secondary causes.

Probably because it earns HMG so much money !!

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