Safe Speed Forums

Just like the CSA!

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

The real problem was that central government wasn't firm enough with those groups of local government who didn't share their political affiliation and allowed it to be "highjacked"... ISTR that Birmingham, for instance, managed to set its poll tax at a level that, should it have all been collected, would have equated to an 80% rise from the previous year's Rates - and then managed to pass the blame for it onto "The Government".

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev

So they were all working and paying tax (which pays for the Govt. grant to LA's), but what were they getting?

Eg

Single person livng in a large suburban detached or semi, may have on their street frontage, a grass verge of x m2, 1 tree per 6 houses, 1 streetlight per 8 houses, 100 flagstones.

A family in a small terraced house may have no verge, no trees, 1 streetlight per 30 houses, and 20 flagstones.

The large house is also likely to produce more garden waste than the yard of a terraced house, for the LA to handle.

I think thats why so many people saw it as instinctively unfair.

At the time I was living in a large semi similar to the description above, but I did have friends who lived in bedsits and shared houses.

fatboytim

I disagree with this example, The costs for maintenance of the street outside houses is a trivial part of what the council pays for and, in any event, street lighting is there for everyone. I reaffirm that it is people, not property, which use council services. The family in the terrace house will generally produce more non-compostable waste and use schools and other facilities much more intensively than a single person. Just compare how many black sacks are left out on dustbin day by different households if you are in any doubt.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

It is a trivial part of the overall costs, but is an ongoing cost,
as the previous system accounted for the 'ambience' of an area, suddenly finding you in your rough council estate are paying the same as the owner of a gated mansion in a leafy suburb, would, I still believe, be seen on face value, as an unfair change by many people.

I understand that the estate dweller may use more council resourses, but this in generally because they are poorer, so taking more money off them does solve the problem for me. The areas with better 'ambiences' tend to contain the better performing state schools, with the LA paying for post 16 education and possibly further or higher education after that, so it's not all one way.

I also appreciate the position of a widow living alone in what was a family home, but when the property was bought the rateable value was obviously acceptable, AIUI this situation was dealt with through rebates.

Perhaps a standard charge for the essential services, and a local charge based on amenities and ambience of the locality may have been more palatable.

I was not arguing the economics, I was putting forward the reason for the 'gut feeling' people generally had at the time.

We accept the running costs and insurance on a large luxury saloon will be higher than a cheap supermini, when we buy them I viewed this the same way.

fatboytim

But the "Gut feeling" for most people was that they liked the "Poll Tax". It was only a relativly small number of people who didnt like it. It was just that they were of the "Rioting mentality".

I did some canvessing for a local election shortly after the "Poll tax" was abandoned in favour of the current system. I did both posh areas and councill estates in my area.

Allmost everybody was sorry to see the "Poll tax" (community charge) go!

By that time they had got used to the idea and actually quite liked it.

By contrast, consider the countryside allience demo against the hunting ban a few years ago. IIRC it was one of the best attended (biggest) demos (if not *the* biggest) ever to hit the streets of London. But because the people attending were mainly *decent* people who were not the sort to trash the centre of London in support of their cause the government was able to ignore them with impunity.

As the guy said in "Starship Troupers" (Words to the effect of)

"Anybody who says Violence isnt the awnser is an idiot. Violence is the *only* awnser, Its the only way you can get your opponants to take any notice of you!"

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

Off topic, but the best quote in Starship Troopers (IMO) is from the disabled recruiting sergeant with both legs missing. "The corps made me the man I am today."

Paul Verhoven is quite political in this underrated film.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Even that is interesting.

War Disability is much less of a problem in a socioty that treats its wounded soldiers well, respects them and supports them.

In the highly militaristic socioty of "Starship Troupers" A wounded ex-soldier would have had a high status and would not have regarded his disability as a big issue.

Its only a problem where wounded ex-soldiers are swept under the carpet and ignored (Like we do today )

In 19th century Germany, for instance, you wernt a gentileman unless you had a dualing scar or two. And even more serious injuries were not considererd "unattractive".

(And, indeed, having numerous bits blown off didnt stop Nelson from having, erm, an active social life )

PS I found a number of aspects of the socioty interesting. In particular. Military service wasnt compulsery, but you didnt get full citizen rights (Voting) unless you had done a tour of duty.

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"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

I think you will find it is Robert Heinlein, the author of the book the film is based on, that is making the political statements. It has been a while since I read it but iirc the film follows the book fairly closely.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

On the OP; I have to believe/hope that the people that produced this report are not stupid and would check any data carefully. So what occurs to me is that their findings are based on a political agenda, based on misleading information supplied by others with an agenda or, most worrying, the most practical and achievable methods they could find.

I ignored the first two conspiracy theories and thought about why the latter could have resulted. What I came up with was the following-

Many drivers lack the skill and, perhaps more importantly, the self discipline to select an appropriate and safe speed. If drivers cannot be trusted then external discipline must be applied. It is not practical to enforce different speed limits for different drivers therefore the speed limits must be set to the lower end of driver ability. Where possible the limit should be set low enough to mitigate the outcome of the accidents that will occur.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

The starship Troopers quote is quite funny but real life can always go one better:

Simon Weston , who was very badly burned on the Sir Galahad was being interviewed last year and was asked about the possibility of his Son (in his mid teens at the time I believe) wanting to join the armed forces to which he gave a long reply that ended with:

"It never did me any harm"

He was so straight faced I never could quite decide if he seriously believed that or if it was just a poker faced joke at the expense of the interviewer.

Military gallows humour mate. Sometimes you have to laugh because the only alternative is to cry

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Political Correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical, liberal minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.