Safe Speed Forums

From MCN

Bikes could have to carry onboard microchips which transmit the machine and owner’s identity to police, it emerged today.

The chips are contained in number plates and enable police to identify motorcycles on the move even when another vehicle is in the way.

Data such as the frame is transmitted via radio waves to handheld receivers and checked against a database of untaxed and uninsured vehicles.

The Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (DVLA) has just launched a six-month study into the feasibility of making the chips compulsory specifically for motorcycles.

DVLA crime reduction officer Allan Lindenburn said the aim was to see whether the chips, called Remote Frequency Identification (RFID) chips, could provide a solution to high rates of road tax evasion for motorcycles.

He said Automatic Number Plate Recognition (ANPR) currently used by police was limited because systems were usually front facing and bikes have only rear number plates.

He said: “We have looked at the problem of motorcycle Vehicle Excise Duty evasion, which is obviously higher than for any other vehicles, and we’re simply looking to address the problem.”

Critics have pointed out once the chips are fitted to bikes, the Government will find it difficult to resist pressure to fit chip readers to front facing speed cameras, allowing them to catch bikes for the first time.

David Short, campaigns manager for the Motorcycle Action Group, said: “That’s the whole issue. Their [the DVLA’s] argument is that this would take away the sting of requiring motorcycles to have front facing number plates.”

Number plate spy chips were first revealed in MCN in 2005, when we reported plans for trials using police vehicles the following year.

Those trials found that a vehicle could be identified “from a handheld reader in a police patrol car pursuing the target vehicle with a third vehicle placed in the between them,” according to a subsequent DVLA report.

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Pecunia Prius Equitas et Salus

It will work .... until numberplates are nicked

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Prepare to be Judged

I would hate for one of these to be exposed to a high-tension spark or strong magnetic field, or even get accidentally left in the microwave for 10 seconds.

Isn't there still some arguments doing the rounds that front facing speed cameras, indeed any speed detection device with the exception of the VASCAR systems, have problems accurately determining a motorcycle's speed?

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Prepare to be Judged

You beat me to it. "I always thought you could put plate's in the microwave officer...."

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"Are you sh**ing me?"
"John Spartan, you are fined one credit for a violation of the verbal morality statute."

Translation:

DVLA crime reduction officer Allan Lindenburn said "We will do absolutely anything, at any level of cost or inconvenience to the public (including continuous tracking) to catch the very few motorcyclists who we think are getting away with it at the moment."

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

And expand it to the considerably large number of other vehicles which we know are getting away with it at the moment

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Prepare to be Judged

So rather than just turning the ANPR cameras around to look at the rear numberplates they want to implement a scheme which will end up costing everyone, will use a lot of energy and just happens to allow people to be tracked a lot easier?

Turn... cameras... around... No? Too easy?

(Not that I agree with the use of ANPR or anything.)

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Andrew.

Don't be silly Ziltro, they can't f*ck us all over by doing that...

How exactly are the chips going to work anyway? Are they going to be INSIDE the plate? If so then how are they going to install one inside the tin plate I have (legally) on my bike? Are they going to pay for retro-fits to all older bikes (more likely the ones that are evading VED anyway)?

Its all bobbins if you ask me.

Still. I like the sound of New Zealand....

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

As far as I understand it the chip would be inside the numberplate, but that's the easy part. The hard part is the aerial. This would probably be a few coils of wire, again embedded inside the numberplate. If you've seen a square "security chip" (sometimes with a fake barcode on one side) with a coil of wire on that is what I would imagine they would use.
A tin plate would most certainly not be a good place to put one of these things.
There are higher frequency RFID chips available, which would require a smaller aerial, but as they have the space over the numberplate to put a lower frequency one they'd probably do that.

Of course this would mean that drilling holes through the plate would be... Err well it could easily damage the aerial. Which wouldn't allow enough power to get in and out of the chip. Aww.

I'm trying to imagine how someone could decide to trial something like this on bikes. Like bikers aren't generally rebellious at all.

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Andrew.

Its been done mate. The technology was trialled at a Shropshire civvie airfield where I used to work as a fireman. I was there as fire cover as they raced fast cars and bikes up and down the track to make sure they could get a positive read at high speed. They even flew a Yak down at 20' past the sensors at 500mph and it picked that up too!

Oh I'm sure it works...
And if you drill a hole through the aerial?

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Andrew.

I'm doing a bit of work with a few RFID companies at the moment and I speeled out a scenario whereby I could have an RFID chip on a lorry and RFID chips within all the goods on the lorry. Then a Reader on the floor/gate etc so I could automatically match goods dispatched to the vehicle.

The bloke looked at me like I was mad and said that I'd need a reader with such power it would fry the driver. Now it could be that his technology simply wasn't up to the job....or could it be that RFID chips in numberplates is complete b0ll0cks?

That's about the only good place for RFID, transportation of goods.
If it is a metal box they are going in then you may have issues. If the back door is open it shouldn't be a problem. I rather doubt you'd need that much power.

Of course you do have to remember that whatever information you can get off of the RFID tags, so can anyone else. So describing what is in there is probably a bad idea. "BOX #5, Contents: Diamonds, QTY 500."

I should think that RFID in numberplates would work quite well.
I believe RFID was developed during the war for identifying aeroplanes?

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Andrew.

There are three basic types of RFID

The most simple type is a chip that gives off a code when it is activated by a field coil......similar to the chips they put into pets. This type is also used for product identification. These are easy to clone. You just have to scan the chip then copy the code.

The second type has a rolling code. It receives a signal, transmits a code then rolls over to the next number. This is called "rolling code". It is tougher to crack but it depends on the base unit knowing the start point for the rolling code. It is tougher to crack but cannot be used for vehicle tracking because there is a limit to the number of RFID tags that can be coded on to the system (usually about 8 or so)

The third type has a read right cycle. It gets a code from the base unit, looks up response, sends it back to the base unit then gets another code in return to store for the next time. This is the most secure system because it cannot be scanned. It also cannot be used for vehicle ID because of the read/write cycle it has to use.

Basically the only RFID system that can be used for vehicle ID is the first type. This can be scanned and cloned with kit available in the Internet.

Any RFID system is at best only secure whilst the security algorithm is not in the public domain. If they try and adopt some kind of secure system how long do you think it will be before the crack is on the Internet?

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Speed camera policy Kills

They've got that covered. They'll just block the IP addresses of those sites and have a word in the Search Engine company's shells like

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Prepare to be Judged

http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39330

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

Which contains:



( I just thought I'd make one more copy... )

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Wonders how long til the MPAA get in touch

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Prepare to be Judged

The MPAA are the modern day equivalent of King Knut. If they allowed Joe Public "fair use" copying of his legally purchased discs they would have no problem. The real fraudulent bulk cloners will do it anyway no matter what protection is put on the discs.

The MPAA are chasing rainbows.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.