Safe Speed Forums

so coming home X-country due to Mway being solid, through a couple of villages (small towns almost i suppose) one is 30limit, the other 40 then 30 a bit deeper in, with a few miles of nice twisty NSL between.

i wouldn't say i'm a stickler for the speed limit but i'm fairly happy to go with a 30 if it's there. so i'm sat on the way out of the first urban bit needle sat on 50kph ish on the way out it's straight and the limited section does drag a bit, but hey it gives the car in front a chance to get out of the way! fair flow of traffic in opposite direction, car behind fairly sensible distance behind, no alarms going off yet.

hit the NSL and accelerate moderately, leave car behind.. behind and enjoy the twists until a catch up with the car in front 2/3 of the way toward the next urban section.

follow line of traffic sensibly 45-55, car behind eventually catches and zooms up to back bumper with a flourish before resuming more acceptable following distance, warning bell no.1 perhaps.

hit 40limit and ease back to indicated 45ish, slight dab of brakes to drop back toward 50k when 30 arrives and hold this to lights.. same again on green. no more warning bells.

by the time we get to the end of the 30 car behind is leaving rather less gap, warning bell no.2? 30 drags round LH & RH with change to NSL on RHer followed by short straight (being generous on google earth i reckon 1/4mile visible) & LHer.

i start to accelerate similar rate to before when i hit the NSL, road ahead is initially clear both ways (but i have this view a second or so before the car behind). see in mirrors car behind is having a look (half way across white line), i look ahead to see line of cars emerging round bend at other end of straight and given that last time i had a clear road he didnt stay with me i'm pleased to assume he'll have to abandon.

but no i hear the scream of his engine, car now alongside. i start to back off but realise backing off won't be enough and from the sound of his engine he's not about to dip & pull in.

so to avoid the inevitable i'm forced into a bit of sharpish braking (fortunately guy behind the guy behind had backed off significantly to watch the show) to get him past me, followed by a knee jerk long flash of the lights, which is greeted with some indistinct gesture throught the rear screen (apologetic perhaps?)

true to style the now car in front is holding me up !..... T-junction he turns right i go left and crunch of gravel he's off with his right arm out the window and a finger in my direction! can't help but laugh.


now i guess this hasty overtake was frustration on his part that i mostly agreed with the speed limit and hence drove at it, and a failure to notice the previous similar scenario i had responded to the NSL signs (whether he was even aware of them i don't know).

i can't go faster than i consider safe for the conditions, i didn't really get many signs that my speed choice was frustrating him so how could i avoid this potentially nasty scenario?

how can someone get so wound up about driving?
how much time did he save?

Don't let it bother you, it doesn't sound like you did much wrong. The guy sounds like an arsehole who can't drive properly. You were just unlucky enough to be in front of him. End of story.

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We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the kerb.

Ed - you live in Warks i remember - thats Warks driving - "expect that everyone you meet is a total plonker - and be happy when they prove you wrong" - best place for him - in front of you - you did well to let him get there with no harm done

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

thanks guys.. just waitng for someone to say 'hey that was me'

i try hard not to make driving a personal thing hence referring to it as the car not the person in front / behind... and was fairly sure my driving was in order even if he didn't like it.

but couldn't help but reflect on it for the rest of the way home and ask the question. but hey at least i'm asking.

I've thought long and hard about this before replying.

While I don't think any blame at all could be attached to you, I do wonder if some of the strategies I use might have prevented it.

I'm very fussy indeed about who is behind. If I don't trust them then I'll either overtake to get away or try to help them past as soon as possible. If those solutions aren't on I'll stop in a layby (or whatever) to get rid of them. It's surprising how rare it is to need these strategies - so when they are needed it's no hardship.

I'm not sure if the 'prior events' would have set off my alarm bells, but I reckon so.

Then, supposing I haven't got rid, and a 'frustration overtake' takes place I do whatever I can to predefine who's going to give way before it's too late. This is to avoid that horrible scenario whereby the overtake is going dangerously wrong and you and the overtaker are both braking side-by-side in an attempt to make it safe. Trouble is as long as he's alongside he can't pull in. And there's a risk that both of you will decide 'braking isn't working' at the same time and switch strategies. He's still alongside and still can't pull in. The 'definition' comes from a flash of brake lights, a flash of left indicator or a marked speed reduction immediately after the idiot commits to his overtake. The message is 'I'm giving way to you', and I'm prepared to brake hard and early if required.

However even all this doesn't always work. See: http://www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5378

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

oh well

overtaken by red van man in a rush last night.. again at the exit of a 30zone.
this time plenty of warning as he had careered up to my boot in the zone and sat inches away (nowhere to pull in safely with someone that close behind).

knew what was coming and let him do whatever pleased, started overtake in 30zone. wasn't as close as previously re: oncoming traffic.. but would have been if i had accelerated out of the 30 as i normally would

additionally hazardous due to no road markings & loose gravel after recent resurface.

and where was he in a rush to get to ? cinema/bowling alley/burger king/ pizza hut i guess given the turning he made in front of me a mile later.... cheers mate

I often wonder if much frustration is caused by a number of related factors, namely

- Speedo overread
- The abundance of accurate speed measuring devices (eg. GPS, Road Angel etc)
- Heavy handed speed enforcement
- Widely known knowledge of the 10%+2 enforcement threshold.

Take a 60mph road, and ignore the 40 everywhere crew and the don't give a toss about cameras&limits crew, you are actually left with a wide range of speeds:

~55mph - Person who knows the limit is 60, his speedo says 60 so that's the speed he does
60mph - Person who knows the limit is 60, his GPS says 60 and he's being pedantic
~62mph - Person who knows he wont get done until 68 so does an indicated 67
67mph - Person with a GPS who knows that he wont get done until 68mph

Now there is evidence[1] that some people find that being behind someone who is doing around 5mph slower than you would like to go is incredibly annoying, far more annoying than someone who is doing 20mph slower than you would like to go. Then we get the frustration and the stupid overtakes.

Is the person in front in any way in the wrong? absolutely not, but neither is the person using his GPS to get an exact 60mph, at least not until they do a stupid overtake on a blind bend, of course.



[1]According to a recent sniffpetrol.com article, the new Vauxhall Corsa has a feature called ASA, Annoying Speed Assist, designed to keep the car at exactly 4.5mph below the current speed limit. Clearly the author of this article finds the practice annoying enough to actually write about it.

doesnt the accelerator do that when the driver chooses to drive at 4.5MPH below the limit? or is this some technology for those who have no control over their right foot in which case surely the removal of their licence would be a better solution?

btw, this is not a dig at anyone driving above or below the speed limit. it is aimed at those who cannot control their speed AT ALL.

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

Jsut a couple of tips for the situation where you can,t or find it hard to overtake the one who has the attitude of "thou shalt not pass".

Drop back a little bit further to give you a better view of the road ahead so as to enable you to plan for an overtake when it is clear.

There is nothing wrong in moving over to the right to have a look to see if the road is clear this is not impatient driving but forward planning as the soner you can see it is clear the sooner you can pass the vehicle concerned.

An examiner who took me for an advanced test said "His rule was ask yourself can I can,t I yes I can" and if you have to say it twice you are too late so don,t do the overtake!

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"There But For The Grace of God Go I"

"He Who Ain,t Made Mistakes Ain,t Made Anything"

Spannernut

I think the gold plated solution would have been to increase the gap between you and the car in front as soon as he got too close up behind you, giving you an additional margin as well as providing him a safe place to pull into when he overtakes. Sure, why should you make it easy on the little scrote if he decides to drive like a wazzock, but in the grand scheme of things it's not gonna delay you worth a damn, and it is likely to make your journey a darn sight safer! Clearly the lights were unnecessary, but who wouldn't have done the same in your position, I almost certainly would have. It does bring to mind an unarmed combat course I attended a while back though, which focussed heavily on avoiding the fight as far as possible; it strongly advocated the conscious suspension of ego, in order to avoid provoking situations such as this which may end with some prat giving you the finger, but also could end with him putting a screwdriver in your chest or a tyre iron round your head!

Additionally, once the guy was past you, you might well be advised to leave a larger gap behind him. It is well accepted wisdom that doubling the gap if someone is tailgating you goes some way towards mitigating the hazard they are causing. I believe that if the car ahead of you is tailgating the car ahead of them then the same wisdom holds true. Sure if we assume that your vehicles have similar braking performance then all thats required is the thinking/acting time to get on the brakes to a similar degree, but what if he stacks it into the car in front and/or any crash barrier/roadside furniture/etc?

In conclusion, I don't think you did a thing wrong, and you coped well with a situation that could have turned nasty. I think we could all do well (and I concede that I could often do with taking my own advice on this matter) to try to suspend our ego when we drive, and let others' idiotic actions wash over us, whilst appreciating that having them in front, rather than behind, us makes us a lot safer, and doesn't hold us up perceptibly.

Ach.. the "Stinkfinger" gesture .. a sign that twazak usually know he ist in the wrong.

I normally do as Robin say.. just increase the gap between self und the village idiot ...

I would have expected him to have acccelerated away under circumstance you describe... but perhaps we talk of the pillock who "want to teach you a lesson" .. who ist the one who would "test his brakes" on you .. or worse .. try to pull off an insurance scam of the fender bender.

I am always wary of that type. Thus I increase the distance. Should I gt the opportunity to overtake this person und get away legally into distance ahead.. I will take it. Sound to me like he the 40-45 mph whatever the limit type

I would just chalk to experience .. und hope the muppet hit on here und learn about COAST ...

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