Safe Speed Forums

Well, not exactly.

The car I was towing was hit by a third party on a roundabout.



I was towing with a rope, around 2.5 ~ 3m long with a red tea-towel tied round the middle.

Approaching a DC roundabout at <10mph in fairly busy traffic there was a gap, with 2 cars approaching from the opposite direction of the DC. One in each lane, the white Impreza in L2 going an estimated 30mph. Neither was indicating.

I opted to keep going.

As I crossed the exit road to my left (exit 1 from my POV) I noticed the car in L2 coming the other way (white Impreza) turning right (still no indication) towards me, heading towards the exit road I was crossing.

I immediately thought "Oh shit" and sank the foot right down, as I was far too far past the exit road to stop. I looked in my offside wing mirror, and observed the Impreza to brake momentarily, make a steering adjustment towards me, then accelerate into the side of the car I was towing.

The guy I was towing said the Impreza driver (guy in his 50's) made eye contact with him twice before the impact.


It's our opinion that the Impreza driver failed to spot the tow rope and mistook the eye contact as confirmation that my friend was giving right of way to the Impreza driver, and attempted to drive through the gap that was our tow rope.


I feel the accident was my fault. I have a distinct contempt for Impreza drivers, due to boy racer appeal, I guess, and expect Impreza drivers to perform unpredictable manouvers, such as turning without indicating.

I knew that, and given the opportunity again, I'd wait for the Impreza to leave the scene before entering the roundabout.

Other factors influencing my decision were the business of the road (might not get another opportunity to go for a long time), and that I was already moving.

The Police were called at the scene, but did not attend. Insurance were also informed at the scene, but no-one asked for my details and the Police didnt seem bothered about me.

I'd appreciate your comments/ thoughts...

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A few pics:

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It wasn't a real Impreza.

Not any more anyway

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Its a tricky situation Jamie. I take it from your discription that this is a fairly large roundabout? Was the Impreza already ON the roundabout when you pulled on, or was he still on the road itself? The fact that he joined the roundabout in L2 with no indication, compounded by the lack of breakaway signal and possibly inappropriately high speed for the conditions(?) doesn't exactly help his case IMO.

Did your friend have hazards on or any signage warning of the fact that he was on tow?

Towing another vehicle or a large trailer is IMO somewhat of a special case. There are times (rightly or wrongly) where I find it benificial to "push the bounderies" as it were. There are times when it is not possible to make progress without causing minor obstruction or performing a right of way violation.

In this case as you've discribed it, I think I would have done the same - sudden braking is never wise unless you're using a fixed tow bar rather than a rope and acceleration from stationary takes a prohibitavely long time. You would have been more of a hazard had you stopped in this case IMO. You may well have pulled out on the guy in the Impreza but it is still his responsibility to avoid you as you seem to have allowed him plenty of time to adjust course / speed. If you'd pulled out when he was right on top of you, not allowing time for him to react then that's a different issue.

Don't feel too guilty about it - like I said, towing another car is an exceptional event and I recon you have to push the rules a little sometimes. No one was injured at a guess and the damage looks fairly minor.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Thanks for the comments Sixy,

Indeed, only pride was dented.

Being as analytical as I can, here are some elaborations:

The car I was towing (the Cougar) was flashing hazards for the roundabout.

The roundabout is large, with two lanes all the way round. There are 4 entrances/exits. I was heading north. All entry/exit roads are DC except the west road, which is DC in the immediate vicinity of the roundabout, but merges to 40mph SC after about 100yds. The north/south roads are the main trunk road, and is NSL DC.

As I recall the event (which may not be strictly accurate), I entered the roundabout heading north perhaps 1 second before the Impreza, which was heading south, but turned west. The Impreza was going much faster than I was.

On the west road, the entry/exit roads are separated by a triangular grass island perhaps 15ft wide. When I came to rest, I was abreast the island, and the Cougar was halfway across L1 and L2 of the west exit.


When I saw the Impreza turn in towards us I sank the foot as I said, trying to pull the Cougar clear, but I knew it wasn't going to work alone. Hence I checked the mirror, and expected to see the Impreza brake. I expected a blast of the horn and the obligatory Aberdeen "Wanker" hand gesture. Instead he mashed straight into the Cougar.

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So the Impreza turned right without indication? Deffinately NOT your fault then. Something that really winds me up round here - there are an awful lot of roundabouts that have arrows marking the direction of travel from a particular lane. As such people think 'I'm in this lane and the arrow's telling me I can do such and such so I won't indicate'. And guess what happens?

I would say a serious lack of observation / forEthought / common sence on the part of the Impreza driver. As you said, you made every effort to take evasive action once you realised what was happening and he simply failed to take account of what was going on. Even if the Cougar wasn't on tow, how exactly was he going to fit a car through a 3m gap without causing the Cougar to brake?

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

exactly. He's clearly missed the rope and just expected the Cougar to stop and wait for him... oops. I never turn past an entrance unless oncoming traffic is either stopped or far enough away and moving slowly enough not to worry about - a habit picked up from cycling and it has saved my life on several occasions.

I agree with all the above.

The biggest caveat about towing on a rope is that, unless vehicle doing the pulling is dramatically more weighty than the breakdown, you have a factor of about six more time to take to do something compared to if you are unhitched.

The power to weight is halved, the length is about three times as long - and the additional rolling resistance is double or greater. A huge "ON TOW" sign is a great investment, and may have been adequate to give the heads-up to Mr Impretza that winning the battle of wills was not going to work!

Nope. It makes no sense.

Surely the Impreza must have been expecting the Cougar to turn off left and was planning to pass in L2 of the west exit.

It follows that we have to ask why the Impreza assessed it in this way. I'm betting that there's a pretty clear reason he thought this. Was the Cougar showing a left indicator? If it was showing hazards, is the right rear indicator lamp out?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Nope, the Cougar's lights were fully functional. Everything was fully servicable, engine was running for power steering and servo brakes etc. It was on tow as the differential had stripped a tooth and we were on our way to change the gearbox over. We did in the end carry on and do this, finishing on Saturday night, an hour later than planned


To be honest I don't know what the Impreza driver was thinking. I don't like to presume too much either. He made a mistake, as I did (I should have waited). He wasn't arsey about it beyond the initial reactions you get just after a crash.

I thought he was going a bit too quick given the volume of traffic, but then it's easy for me to say that as it excuses poor judgement on my part.

That's why I wanted opinions here, as I respect this forum's users views as they are generally objective, honest and fair.

I still think I could have avoided the crash, but I took the convenient option as I didn't want to have to retension the rope and find another slot to move off again.

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Mid 1990's (I guess) plain white, normally aspirated, driven by a 50 year old... real boy racers car that.

Sorry but this car fits perfectly with the older description of a Subaru: "Farmers Car". Not stylish, nothing to shout about, practical 4WD family saloon with a 1.6 engine (unlikely to be the 2.0) that never breaks down, driven by the steady, safe member of the countryside community - sits on the parish council and possibly a school governer when not managing the livestock and spending the evening with his peers "Seeing a man about a dog" down the pub.

Now if it had the air scoop on the bonnet to force air through the inter-cooler, then it would also have a turbo and would be a different matter altogether. Subaru Imprezas were not until recently, boy racers cars - they were enthusiasts cars, and in particular rally enthusiasts cars. The Group 19+ insurance was much to much for anybody who had a bad driving record to pay for, unless you had lots of money in which case you buy a Porsche anyway. I know, as a 40 year old with no accidents in 18 years and no active points, I still get some quotes in the £2K region.

Subaru owners are a friendly group and always wave at each other - except for the old people in non turbo models that have to get up and milk the cows at 5:00am every morning.

Unfortunately these days the earlier turbo models have now depreciated to the point where they are starting to become affordable to the stay at home "chavs" who are not saving for their futures, and are willing to pay the same money for the car as they do for the insurance. The Subaru community are gutted, because their nice community has started to become invaded by yobs.

I don't mean to offend Subaru owners Rewolf, infact a good friend has driven Legacys for years.

I just dont trust Impreza drivers these days until they prove they're not out to kill everyone.

The car I was towing with was written off (I repaired it personally) by a middle aged woman in an 04 plate Impreza turbo last year, who tried an equally spectacular manouver. She pulled up at a T junction and waiting until we were less than 30ft from her (NSL SC) before she gunned it and tried to cross us and go the opposite direction to us. Naturally we T-boned the effing thing. Luckily I think we wrote it off too, gave it a good smack in the A and B pillars. Served her right.

Around Christmas time I was almost creamed by an Impreza coming round a bend in the opposite direction in a 4 wheel drift, with his arse on my side of the road.

2 years ago I jumped over a wall as a pedestrian as an Impreza skidded over the pavement I was walking on and smashed into the wall I'd jumped over.

Again, I don't mean to be offensive, but I do and shall continue to treat Impreza drivers as though they're out to get me until they prove otherwise.

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I've driven an Turbo Impreza.

You need to be a real donut to lose it in one. Seems like there are a lot of donuts about.

I think Rewolf has a point about depreciation.

We notice it even in the Cougar owners club.

It's like the Capri's reputation. I think as they became cheaper they started to attract "less than careful" owners.

Subarus didn't use to bother me. It's been in the last few years that I started to notice them in a negative light.

It's a shame, as I genuinely don't like to label people or groups, but it seems that Imprezas are now falling into the hands of plonkers. It's possibly a car that convinces it's driver they have more skill than they really have.



All the predjudice of mine aside, the above crash was nothing to do with boy racers, and the man driving the Impreza above definately wasn't a boy-racer. He just seemed like an ordinary 50something guy.
My point above is that Imprezas are normally cars I give a wide berth to (for a reason which doesn't directly apply here). Had I given that wide berth then nothing would have happened

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Probably not the best idea, far too much scope for misinterpretation.

And isn't it illegal? Hazards on a moving vehicle.

Much better to keep hazards off most of the time and use indicators as normal. I would only use hazards briefly as a warning to traffic coming from behind.

Hazards are illegal on a moving vehicle under normal circumstances. I was always taught that when towing, the towed vehicle should have hazards on. Besides that, from the Impreza's point of view it would look as if the Cougar was turning Right, not Left.

Jamie. When someone drove into my last year I felt guilty as hell - I was convinced that I could have done more to avoid the situation (He cut the corner on a very tight, blind LH bend and took my front o/s wing off - admitted liability at the scene and was great throughout.). The more I analysed what had happened and talked it through with friends I realised that there was infact very little I could have done. I felt bad because I thought that, as a reasonably compitent driver, I should have been able to avoid the situation. I reiterate that I believe from your discription that you did nothing out of order and there was infact nothing you could have done to prevent the accident. If the Impreza was indicating properly then it would be a different matter. Don't beat yourself up over it. Take it as a learning experience (which it seams you have) and try to avoid towing in the rush hour next time

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

Sounds to me like the woman just didn't see you, or badly misjudged your speed - while they can leap off the line like a scaulded cat they are not that fast. As a performance car (better than many cars that used to be considered to be supercars) they need to be driven with respect and understanding of what they can and cannot do. While they were bought by enthusiasts then you might get the occasional 4 wheel drift coming towards you, but not very often. These days they are a lot more around, and many are driven by people with less respect and too much confidence. At the end of the day any car will only stay on the road while it has the grip to do so. The Impreza has incredible power to stay on the road, but some people become over-confident, and forget about the basics - like being very careful in winter when the excess power must be used with extreme caution... I cannot excuse the drivers of the Imprezas that you have met, I just haven't seen anybody like that in one myself.

No thats completely fair Rewolf, and I agree with all you say there. I think the Imprezas are popular here because we have lots of twisty roads around. Aberdeen also has pretty good wages generally so numpties who otherwise couldn't afford performance cars seemingly can around here

I know someone who has one because he lives in the countryside and refuses to buy a stereotypical 4x4. He needs 4 wheel drive for the snow as many roads dont get gritted or plowed. In fact, he had a 2.5 series McRae a few years ago. He rolled it and it wasn't written off. I was impressed with it's strength. All seam welded apparently?

The woman above admitted that she misjudged the whole situation. We were only doing 35-40 on the road as it had snowed heavily the day before and there was still alot of ice and snow around at sides of the road and the odd patch on the road - you know the score etc....

She knew she had great traction away from the white line, but it didn't click that she had to do a 90 deg turn afterwards. Had it been a crossroads and she was going straight over, I dare say that horn blasting and a change of underwear would have sufficed

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The car is strong because a strong chassis is required to handle the power, flexing of the chassis disrupts the operation of the suspension and looses grip, but it isn't seam welded except for the proper rally or race versions: WRC, Group-N etc. Unlike companies such as Ford, Citroen, etc, the Rally Car at least starts off with a proper road going-chassis straight off the production line. Prodrive then strip it back to a bare shell, seam weld it, then weld in the roll-cage, and then start adding back in only the bits that a WRC car needs. There was a very nice "This is what we do" feature on the web, but I cannot find it now.

There are special versions that are seam welded that you can buy off the shelf such as the Type RA (Race Altered) from Subaru Technica International (STI) - these have to be bought directly from Japan and are intended for racing use or for "more money than sense buyers" that just have to have the "best" version.