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 Post subject: Traffic Calming Island
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 13:11 
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New to this and would welcome some advise here.
Back in June I was travelling on a standard two laned A-road entering a small village. This is a road that I don't use often, not an excuse, merely a stated fact at this point in the story.
On exiting a left hand bend approximately 300 metres from the built up area I noticed a cyclist heading in the same direction, again approximately 200 - 250 metres ahead of me. I was travelling at about 40mph and on nearing the cyclist slowed to about 30mph, signalling to move out and overtake as I entered the village. There was no traffic coming the other way, although the road was hatched with white hatches only (no red infill) as a lane narrowing, traffic calming measure. I passed the cyclist and observed that he was going at a reasonable speed so allowed him more room before moving back to my lane.
What I did not see was what was left of a traffic calming bollard in the centre of the road in the white hatching. The hi-viz plastic yellow sign with the blue/white keep left arrow had been removed/gone missing, leaving only the base which was the same colour as the road surface (no red or green paint on top). The base was the standard kerb height and although I managed to brake at the last minute to scrub speed off, given that I knew the cyclist was travelling at speed I ellected not to swerve drastically to miss the island but hoped that keeping my wheels either side of it would minimise damage. This resulted in a smashed sump and broken suspension spring and an £800 repair bill.
I have photographed the area, spoken to local residents who have informed me that several such incidents had occurred and sent all relevant details to the council concerned, including photographs of the site. They have informed me that this was reported to them four days before my incident. The faulty bollard/island was re-instated less than 24 hours after I reported my accident.
The council have denied responsibility for this stating that I should have been more aware of the bollard base. Given that it is standard practice to use white hatching alone as a traffic calming measure and the base (covered in grit, gravel and general small debris) blended into the general road surface making it look like a continuous strip of white hatching, I would be interested in hearing viewpoints from other members and what the likelihood is of succesfully reclaiming my repair bill from the council may be.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 13:34 
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:welcome: Andy.

Can I first of all say how I respect and admire your consideration for the cyclist. :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm sure at the last minute when you saw what's about to happen you could have taken a shot at swerving back towards the cyclist, and many would have I'm sure, but you deserve at the very least to be reimbursed to the amount you had to spend for your good actions.

Image

I know, (I think), that amounts of about £1,000 or less can go through the small claims courts IIRC. I'm not sure if that's the amount anymore or if it can be used against the Council, as opposed to private institutions or people. But I hope so. I've heard of drivers successfully making claims against damage from ridiculous potholes, so it bodes well for you I think.

Have to say I have come close more than once to doing exactly the same thing because some vandal has thrown the bollard away. It's actually harder to see in the daytime when this happens because at night you at least still have the light shining up. So I can fully relate to your post.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2011 20:34 
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hatching enclosed by solid or dashed whites lines ?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 01:55 
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:welcome: Andy4994

Sorry to hear of this that must have been a nasty shock.

Can you supply the google street map location or (at least) a similar type of road markings ?
Under normal driving conditions one would see an island with ease. However under the circumstances that you describe, and with your attention still greatly concerned with the cyclist it is understandable that you were paying less attention 'ahead' as you describe you were still thinking about the end of the overtake.

Now although the cyclist was the 'hazard' the new one became the island which was less recognisable with the bollard removed. The question is whether that misplaced bollard can reasonably account for the accident or if it was reasonable to assume that it was still clearly avoidable.
I would think that with the recent reported incidents, at this location, there is clear evidence to rest a good portion of the blame with the 'expected visual cue' in the bollard to show the danger.
You really need to take proper legal advice to be sure ... but the Council have a legal obligation to ensure that all traffic signs comply fully with the Road Traffic Act. When this has not happened I expect them to be held responsible.

Due to the manner in which your accident occurred I would suspect a decent portion of the resulting accident to lie with the Council but it might not be 100%.
I would go back to the area and obtain all the information that I could about the island in question and all other incidents and reports. I'd ask for an FOI of all accidents reported in the last 12 months at least.
I'd ask the Council for a full maintenance report and their response to the recent report and events prior to your incident.
I'd have a full report and photos of all damage done and I'd have the garage write a report from their opinion about what caused what damage to your car.
Small Claims Court is usually about £750 when I last looked but just call your local Court Clerk and ask them, and query if the Council can be taken to a SCC. I don't see why they cannot but because it is a legal requirement that all roads are legally maintained that may make it a criminal case in which case then I think this is the incorrect Court ...
The CAB (Citizens Advice Bureau) can probably answer a few of the above questions but really calling a good criminal solicitor will help. I have few names if you are stuck.

If you have comprehensive insurance your own insurance ought to cover it, (for now), but, I get the impression that this is not the case with you?
Bearing in mind that all insurances cover a contribution to Council Property Damage they (often) receive funds to repair and replace damaged items.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 09:43 
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Thanks for the replies, I do have comprehensive insurance but obviously am wanting to avoid claiming (even although I have protected no claims and a full no claims bonus). I will look at the Google street map of the area and attach a link if possible, or perhaps attach a couple of the photographs that I took after the incident. The garage have said that they will supply a written report if required, and yes, if need be I will contact both the CAB and a lawyer.3


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 10:19 
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Here is the Google Street Map location. I was heading NW (approx) with Kings Wells gardens on my right and the island in question is the small island in the middle of the road as you enter the village (not the pedestrian refuge further into the village). This image is probably 3 - 4 years old so road markings are somewhat different now and island less visible. It can be seen that the white kerbing on the island, taking away the hi-viz bollard, blends into the white cross hatching.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=-33.98 ... mbed&hl=en

I hope that this link works and shows the area ok.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:16 
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Andy4994 wrote:
Here is the Google Street Map location.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=-33.98 ... mbed&hl=en

I hope that this link works and shows the area ok.

No, sorry, that shows somewhere in South Africa :|

At the top right of the screen, there's a little icon like two links of a chain. Click on that and it will open a box showing the link to the current view.

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:20 
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PeterE wrote:
Andy4994 wrote:
Here is the Google Street Map location.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ll=-33.98 ... mbed&hl=en

I hope that this link works and shows the area ok.

No, sorry, that shows somewhere in South Africa :|

That’s more than me Peter, I just get a big black screen :? Maybe it was taken at night. :lol:

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:39 
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I get a dirt road in South Africa. I don't mind. There are no traffic islands on it so in a way it is an improvement.

Welcome to the site, Andy. Sorry to hear about your car. Traffic islands and the poor maintenance of are a particular bugbear of mine. When riding at night I am especially careful as they are often without bollards and impossible to see until the last minute.

I hope you make the b'stards pay! I am no great fan of road furniture. Much of it serves little purpose, is poorly thought out and potentially lethal - it hurts if you hit it.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:52 
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Google Streetview currently freezing my laptop for some reason so I will get back to you with correct web link as soon as I can.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 16:31 
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Is it possible to insert my own photo here? If so, what's quickets/easiest way?


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 16:36 
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I always use Photobucket Andy.

There are others but I'm familiar with it and it's easy to use. Free too, naturally. :)

Once you have uploaded, copy and paste the forth option of the pop-up menu at the bottom of your image called IMG Code. You will have to register to upload your own.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 19:50 
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Andy4994 wrote:
Is it possible to insert my own photo here? If so, what's quickets/easiest way?

An alternative is to upload from your PC onto the forum

When compiling a post, click on the "upload attachment" tab, then browse to the appropriate directory and select your file (click "add the file"). The image must meet pixel-size and file size constraints (there is a limit, but I can't remember what they are).

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 19:55 
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Steve wrote:
Andy4994 wrote:
Is it possible to insert my own photo here? If so, what's quickets/easiest way?

An alternative is to upload from your PC onto the forum

When compiling a post, clip on the "upload attachment" tab, then browse to the appropriate directory and select your file (click "add the file"). The image must meet pixel-size and file size constraints (there is a limit, but I can't remember what they are).

I didn't know that! And there's me faffing with Photobucket for years. :doh: Mind you, Photobucket does have some other tricks to resize and stuff and can be used on any forum. (He says, trying to save face)

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You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 20, 2011 23:20 
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I have only recently changed the image upload setting, but I discourage it as it can mean that I get left paying for loads of uploaded images that simply take up valuable space.
I have made the width image limit, as 800pixels ...

I do encourage you to link to the image as much as you can and to only use this option if it is of great importance or you are having exceptional trouble.
Whilst I can delete images that are simply taking up space un-necessarily I'd rather not have to.

Andy if you are having trouble PM (private message) me and I can help you sort this out.

I noticed today a manhole cover that is greatly raised with no protection whatsoever, anywhere around it other than it is sitting in the middle of a small triangle area of unused road where two roads join!

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PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 20:32 
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Thinking out of the box, could you saferly have moved to the right of this broken obstruction or was there traffic coming towards you?


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 30, 2011 14:17 
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How are you getting on with the image - can I help ?

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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 17:34 
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Sorry everyone that I've been offline on this subject for so long, had a load of other pressing stuff, however I will have a go at uploading photos, or at least linking to them now. With regard to swerving to the right, I didn't have time for that manoeuvre, I was mid-way through my move to the left back to my own lane while also looking in nearside door mirror and rear view mirror for cyclist then as I looked back ahead noticed the island too late. My instanteous thought process was to brake hard but keep my line to a) ensure that the cyclist had room as I had slowed considerably and it may catch him unawares and b) hope that by getting my front wheels either side of the island then by luck the clearance between island surface and sump would be enough that I would not make contact. It didn't work out that way, I did not have the time or space to swerve to the right and swerving left while under braking very probably would have meant a collision with the cyclist which was obviously not an option. Right, let's look at uploading these photos then - or linking to them!


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 04, 2011 17:45 
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Here , hopefully is link to Google Streetview of the offending bollard/island. This was obviously taken at least two or three years ago and the bollard/island and immediate surrounds are nowhere near as visible now. However the surface of the island as you will see is the same as the road surface, so without the hi viz bollard, is not clearly visible.

http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=Chapelt ... 4,,0,-8.63

Hope it works.
Andy


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 03:26 
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Yep got that fine thanks.

I can see why it might catch you out too. The pedestrian sign can distract and the narrowness of the road will become an issue too. It is clear that large tractor type wheels have been encroaching onto the verge to make room.
Baffles me as to why they think that they need the bollard at all ?
If it is for ped crossing then why not just have a zebra crossing ?
I can also see that the bumps along the road (coming from 'out of town') may also help to make the island less noticeable. I'll give this more thoughts later tomorrow.

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