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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Thu Jun 25, 2009 08:53 
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Squirrel wrote:
Phone timing stuff....


So you are saying that having the driver measuring the time, on an uncalibrated speedo is an accurate enough test? You will understand why no-one will agree with you on that one.


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What if the cars ahead had stopped for some reason while you were watching the speedo/stopwatch?
Ask that question (removing the stopwatch reference) in relation to speed cameras and you'll see the whole point of the SafeSpeed campaign.



Doh. :banghead:

Quote:
I haven't ever tested the 0-30 time on my car. I was comparing the 0-60 time against the 40-70 time, which in real-world driving is comparing "burning off" some little chav at the lights against the mid-range acceleration that comes in so useful when, eg, overtaking a 44 ton truck on a single carriageway.


My point was that you said on another thread that it's quicker to get from 30-60 than 0-30, which is entirely untrue and the fact is if you beleive this rather than having made a typo you should not be doing such things like overtaking without having a quick refresh on driving.

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Which would you give the more respect, the guy that's hooning up the road taking corners fast, or the one that let you out of a bad visability junction?

Neither. The guy that manages to drive from one end of the Cockadilly road to the other (B4058 Horsley turning to B4066 Frocester Hill crossroads) faster than me in a lesser car. (Where 'lesser' means lower powered, skinny tyres, front wheel drive etc.)

If you can take a 1 litre Saxo with rubber bands for tyres down that road quicker than I can in my A4 then you may have earned a small amount of respect. But I don't see that happening any time soon.


No no no! Arrrghhhhh. Your driving attitude is becoming clearer, I was not on about anything to do with going faster than you. My point totally missed :banghead:

I ask again, if you think it's safe to do such a thing, please post the exact point (via google/msn maps).

Look squirrel, the whole point of posting in the near miss section is that you learn from your mistakes. You have however just ranted and actually taken nothing on board. And instead, once again started talking about how fast you can go.

Can I ask what you have taken from the members comments on the learner incident?

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 18:05 
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Pratnership wrote:
No no no! Arrrghhhhh. Your driving attitude is becoming clearer, I was not on about anything to do with going faster than you. My point totally missed


Point not missed at all. Hook, line and sinker.

Quote:
I ask again, if you think it's safe to do such a thing, please post the exact point (via google/msn maps).


And I'd do that why? So that you can tip off the local plod and have them sitting down there trying to catch me doing "speed trials"?

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Can I ask what you have taken from the members comments on the learner incident?


Only what I already knew. Not to take any notice of anything you say as you're only here to bait and troll - by your own admission.

Again, I will state that you have based your opinion of my driving on "sexed up" comments posted on a spleen-venting forum. Three years ago I did actually invite you to come for a drive and see for yourself first hand, however you declined. Since then however (and after some very personal and unpleasant comments made about me) I quite honestly wouldn't want you within 50 feet of me, whether I'm in or out of the car. But for now please leave your penis size envy at the door. :D

Now, to get back on topic - does anyone think that learners should have to undertake a certain amount of instruction with an ADI (say at least 10 hours worth, ie 5 2-hour lessons) before they're allowed out with someone who's over 21 and has had a full license for at least 3 years?

Or how about "you can't be supervised by anyone other than an ADI until you've passed your theory test"?

Just a couple of ideas...

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 18:18 
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I must admit that going by the standard of everyday driving that I see on a regular basis, I would find it hard to believe that many of these people are capable of teaching anyone how to pass a test, unless it's a case of..." do as I say NOT as I do" ...;-)

I believe that all learners should have some proper tuition before being taught by "amatuer" instructors.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 07:34 
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Quote:
Three years ago I did actually invite you to come for a drive and see for yourself first hand, however you declined.


Given your postings on here I am not surprised that Pratnership didn't want to travel with you. :) Like me he probably values his intact body

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 09:28 
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graball wrote:
I must admit that going by the standard of everyday driving that I see on a regular basis, I would find it hard to believe that many of these people are capable of teaching anyone how to pass a test, unless it's a case of..." do as I say NOT as I do" ...;-)

I believe that all learners should have some proper tuition before being taught by "amatuer" instructors.


I agree, non-professional accompaniment should not replace proper lessons.


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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:47 
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Read much but scanned some of this, so sorry if this has been said:

Squirrel wrote:
I think I flashed. I definitely sounded a long horn note.


To me that suggests you anticipated the event, possibly on a subliminal level, well before you were forced to react to it. Sometimes you see (but don't consciously register) little clues that make it seem like you have a premonition of what someone does next. A good driver strikes a balance between what his conscious is observing and what his guts are telling him. I believe this is what Paul Smith referred to as the "lizard Brain".

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 20:39 
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Squirrel wrote:
And I'd do that why? So that you can tip off the local plod and have them sitting down there trying to catch me doing "speed trials"?


Um, yes, because they are going to stakeout that road 24/7. :roll:

Actually, it's because I want to point out to you what could happen on such a stretch of road.

Is there trees along the route? I deer ran out in front of my ex many years ago. Dispite breaking instantly she still hit it, luckily not hard enough to damage the car, nor it. It was shocked for a minute, but got up and ran off.

There's so many things that can unexpectedly happen, while you are glancing at the speedo. And worse, at some point you have to actually watch it when it hits 70 (or whatever else you are getting to).

I remember one instance of you detailing when someone was suddenly speeding head on at you the wrong side of a traffic island, for no apperent reason and causing you to crash into a traffic light.

How about someone coming out of a junction and not seeing you? If you are looking at the stopwatch theres no chance of you stopping in time.

Time trials are only for the track, and since it will not be accurate anyway (my points earlier, and Steves), why bother risking it on a road? Just go to a track, get it done properly then you can post the results in the forum. That will have the added bonus of people beleiving them.

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 00:21 
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Pratnership wrote:
Um, yes, because they are going to stakeout that road 24/7.


It wouldn't surprise me actually. But I won't go into that here.

Quote:
There's so many things that can unexpectedly happen, while you are glancing at the speedo.


I'm glad you admit this.

Quote:
How about someone coming out of a junction and not seeing you? If you are looking at the stopwatch theres no chance of you stopping in time.


Two points:

Firstly the particular stretch of road I chose for this test had no side turnings, junctions or lay-bys for a considerable distance - more than enough to be clear for this test.

Secondly I wouldn't be "looking at the stopwatch" at the time of the test. You read the time off the stopwatch afterwards, preferably once you've pulled over safely.

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 14:34 
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Quote:
I'm glad you admit this.


Watching the speedo ( I meant speedo not stopwatch - you have to keep your eyes on it otherwise you don't stop the watch at the proper time) for a time trial is a lot different to trying not to speed. But that's a different discussion entirely, and a diversionary tactic by you.

Quote:
Firstly the particular stretch of road I chose for this test had no side turnings, junctions or lay-bys for a considerable distance - more than enough to be clear for this test.


Really, where is it then? I suspect you don't post it because there could be various safety issues to be pointed out, hence why you don't post which section of road it is along.

I know you are going to argue that it's safe until the cows come home, and I won't be able to convince you otherwise. What's worse, I think you geninely beleive you are safe. Instead of me, look at what what has happened in this thread.

Look what more expirenced drivers have been saying. Look at the oddities, the fact you were certain of what you did, giving detailed descriptions and then suddenly you are not sure.

Look at the way this thread about a near miss suddenly went to how fast your car can go.

I'm asking, politely, for you not to do 'speed tests' on public roads. Apart from being dangerous, they are pointless, as no-one on here will consider the figures accurate anyway.

Why not book tracktime and get some proper equipment? Then you can disuss your cars abilities to your hearts content without anyone questioning it. It's a double win as far as I can see.

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 15:21 
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Quote:
Watching the speedo ( I meant speedo not stopwatch - you have to keep your eyes on it otherwise you don't stop the watch at the proper time) for a time trial is a lot different to trying not to speed.


Why?

Quote:
Look at the way this thread about a near miss suddenly went to how fast your car can go.


All squirrel's near miss threads say that! I've more or less got 'Audi A4 chipped to 210 bhp' imprinted on the back of my eyes...


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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 15:55 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
Quote:
Watching the speedo ( I meant speedo not stopwatch - you have to keep your eyes on it otherwise you don't stop the watch at the proper time) for a time trial is a lot different to trying not to speed.


Why?


Start another thread, and I'll take you up on that one :lol:

Johnnytheboy wrote:
Quote:
Look at the way this thread about a near miss suddenly went to how fast your car can go.


All squirrel's near miss threads say that! I've more or less got 'Audi A4 chipped to 210 bhp' imprinted on the back of my eyes...


I'm not the only one that thought that then.

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 17:31 
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Pratnership wrote:
Dispite breaking instantly


impressive reactions your ex :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 19:00 
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Pratnership wrote:
Watching the speedo ( I meant speedo not stopwatch - you have to keep your eyes on it otherwise you don't stop the watch at the proper time) for a time trial is a lot different to trying not to speed. But that's a different discussion entirely, and a diversionary tactic by you.


You don't have to watch the speedo the whole time. It's pretty easy to anticipate when it's going to cross the 60 mark. Just like using a VASCAR device really.

(Rest of posting edited to remove admittedly juvenile comments - I really shouldn't stoop to his level!)

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Last edited by Squirrel on Tue Jul 07, 2009 08:23, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 08:46 
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ed_m wrote:
Pratnership wrote:
Dispite breaking instantly


impressive reactions your ex :wink:


Had to admit I was impressed, she wasn't the most confidant of drivers, but she did a very good job then, didn't lock the wheels either. There was a bit of fur on the bumper though :lol:

Quote:
You don't have to watch the speedo the whole time. It's pretty easy to anticipate when it's going to cross the 60 mark. Just like using a VASCAR device really.


Um. Ok. So rather than time it, you (and presumably VASCAR) guess when it hits xx speed? :? So you are doing a time trial, but just guessing the time?? No wonder you came up with the results you did. And that's presumably why vascar doesn't hold home office type approval.

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 10:30 
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Not going to bother starting another thread but had another one last night. Not a learner but the kid looked about 18 so couldn't have been driving very long.

So there I was parking up by the side of the road near the kebab van in Yate (Badminton Road industrial estate if anyone knows the area). I pulled up to the side of the road and was rolling forward to get parked as close as possible when the "sixth sense" went off.

For some reason I instinctively hit the anchors just in time to see a car driven by some little oik come flying past me and cut across in front of me as if to go into the space I was pulling forward into. I also hit the horn and fortunately stopped short of him.

By this point there wasn't sufficient space for him to park so he reverse parked (badly!) behind me. Then whilst waiting for my kebab the little twunt started having a go at me! (For the record - my speed was <5mph as I was rolling forward into a parking space, his... well, couldn't put a numeric value on it but 'too fast' as he hadn't left himself time to react.)

At this point I pointed out to him that "there's a time and a place for driving fast" and a busy industrial estate wasn't it. He continued being mouthy so I gave him a proper dressing down in front of all his mates, can't remember the exact words but it was something along the lines of "careless driving like that kills, how would you feel if you pulled a stunt like that again and the other driver wasn't so observant and you hospitalised your mates here?"

By the end of it the kid was staring down at his shoes!

I picked up my kebab, got back in the car and said to my friend "oh my god, I'm turning into my dad!"

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 16:24 
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just another reason why kebabs are a bad idea.


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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 19:03 
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So are you saying that kebabs make you drive like a tosser? Or that kebab vans attract boy racers? ;-)

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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2009 21:49 
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Squirrel wrote:
So are you saying that kebabs make you drive like a tosser? Or that kebab vans attract boy racers? ;-)


yes, probably :) Did you see any environmental health certificates pinned to the wall?


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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Mon Jul 06, 2009 07:04 
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Squirrel wrote:
So are you saying that kebabs make you drive like a tosser?


well you said it.. not me :D


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 Post subject: Re: Damned learners!
PostPosted: Sun Jul 12, 2009 09:46 
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Squirrel wrote:
So are you saying that kebabs make you drive like a tosser? Or that kebab vans attract boy racers? ;-)




:wink: :P :yesyes: :P :twisted:


However, I would have told the lad, very calmly und politely with a reassuring smile (hopefully) to apply brain und COAST as there was a car .. moving slowly. He could not be sure if rolling in to park up or setting off after eating said kebab. Thus he should have pulled in to the space behind as this would be safe und courteously correct action.

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