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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 12:28 
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Ok this one definitely wasn't my fault, but I'm posting it because it's a situation I'd not previously thought was a specific danger to bikes.

I was travelling through my local town centre, 30 limit, shops, pedestrians, speed bumps, top speed of around 15mph, there's a few cars in front of me and behind me is a kid on a motorbike.

I have no problem with the kid, he's on an off-road style bike in Ford ASBO orange, it has numberplates and L plates and the kid is in full gear and a proper helmet. He's keeping back about 3/4 car length which is fine at that speed and is signalling correctly and everything, he's roughly level with the centre of my car. All fine, all good. (I saw the bike a little later, it's a Hyosung, no idea if they're any good, I'm not a biker)

The only thing he's doing which you could possibly describe as erratic is he's going around the speed bumps rather than over them. Not sure if that's the recommended thing for bikes to do or not, but I have no problem with it, however it seems to unnerve the car behind him who is keeping back almost two car lengths. Again all fine, no problem with leaving extra distance.

This is until a minor road appears from the left, typical T junction with that minor road giving way. Waiting at the give way line is a pink PT Cruiser Image, and suddenly my idiot sense starts tingling (well, this person did think that a pink PT Cruiser was a good idea)

You know how sometimes you just know what is going to happen, it was one of those moments, I move towards the centre line a little so that they can see the bike a little sooner, but it doesn't prevent the inevitable. "aha! a gap!" thinks the PT Cruiser pilot and procedes to pull out behind me with the intend of cutting in front of the car that is foolishly leaving over 2 1/2 car lengths. (That in itself should have been a clue here, no-one leaves a gap like that in this particular town centre, everyone drives in bunches separated only by traffic lights or people parking/departing)

The driver sees the bike at the last minute, drops the anchors and stops about 6-9 inches short of the kid's back wheel, about where his leg would have been had he not made a very rapid right turn moments earlier, and then said driver starts gesticulating and shouting like it was the kids fault.

I really don't understand how you bikers put up with it, you're not even safe in a slow moving town centre traffic jam and then the idiots blame you for the crash. :loco:


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 13:01 
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Were the speed humps full width or 'pillows'? I was taught to ride round the 'pillow' type ones (my instructer even encouraged me to ride on the wrong side of the line as long as nothing was coming :lol: ), but the full width ones may require riding in the gutter... (actually, particularly on a crosser, they can be huge amounts of fun to ride over... :wink: )

Doesn't sound like he did anything obviously 'wrong' (and he is a learner after all, so advanced defensive techniques wouldn't be at the front of his mind), but I suppose in a sutuation like that he could have backed off even further from you and maybe even moved over to just left of centre to give the pink muppet more chance to see him. Personally I try to avoid riding square behind another vehicle but try to position myself well to the o/s so I can see the wing-mirror.

It is one of those nightmare situations on a bike though, when there is actually no-where to go. The worst situation I find is when you're approaching a side road and there is traffic waiting to emerge AND waiting to turn in... :o

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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 13:12 
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Sixy_the_red wrote:
Were the speed humps full width or 'pillows'? I was taught to ride round the 'pillow' type ones (my instructer even encouraged me to ride on the wrong side of the line as long as nothing was coming :lol: ), but the full width ones may require riding in the gutter... (actually, particularly on a crosser, they can be huge amounts of fun to ride over... :wink: )


They were the pillow type, 3 across the road at various points. You see a lot of odd driver behaviour as people have to go around parked cars and simultaneously hit the pillow in whatever their preferred manner is (either dead centre or drivers wheel going around it usually)

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Doesn't sound like he did anything obviously 'wrong' (and he is a learner after all, so advanced defensive techniques wouldn't be at the front of his mind), but I suppose in a sutuation like that he could have backed off even further from you and maybe even moved over to just left of centre to give the pink muppet more chance to see him. Personally I try to avoid riding square behind another vehicle but try to position myself well to the o/s so I can see the wing-mirror.


Well I didn't keep a constant eye on my rear view mirror as the kid struck me as pretty competent and unlikely to do anything that would, erm, interact with my vehicle in any way. The road is very curved and the road surface close to the gutter is somewhat crap with the top surface crumbled away and full of pot holes. When it's quieter I prefer to put my o/s wheels on the white line rather than drive through it, so his position is clearly understandable.

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It is one of those nightmare situations on a bike though, when there is actually no-where to go. The worst situation I find is when you're approaching a side road and there is traffic waiting to emerge AND waiting to turn in... :o


Yeah, I can see how that would be a problem, you could feasibly have two people not see you and want to occupy your space.


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 12, 2008 14:08 
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Lum wrote:
it, so his position is clearly understandable.

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It is one of those nightmare situations on a bike though, when there is actually no-where to go. The worst situation I find is when you're approaching a side road and there is traffic waiting to emerge AND waiting to turn in... :o


Yeah, I can see how that would be a problem, you could feasibly have two people not see you and want to occupy your space.


Its not so much that, but you have no escape route. My normal behaviour when someone is emerging to my left is to move way over to the right - for one the movement side to side makes it more likely that they'll see me and for two, they have to move further to 'get' me. If there's someone turning into the side road from my right too, then my escape route is removed.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 20:32 
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Don't know much about PT Cruisers in particular but could be a case of screen pillar blind spot ... just had a thought about that .... do people who drive closer to the windscreen suffer worse from screen pillar blind spots, is bind spot worse due to angle of view and distance from pillar?

As with sixy .. when on bike I move out towards road centre to achive better position and create sideways movement ... and cover brakes. Ppl who creep forwards at juctions can be kinda scary, never quite sure whether they are just creeping or are really gonna pull out ... GONNAE NO DO THAT :loco:


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 03:39 
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My initial reaction is that he was a little too close to your rear bumper. With pillow bumps he would be probably travelling in the outside third of the lane toward the centre line. This would place him behind you for longer from the point of view of the emerging car.

Travelling to close to the car in front is my pet hate for bikes/scooters etc. Now I ride I try to make myself visible in heavy traffic by leaving a good gap. I just hope he learnt the lesson and will drop back a bit in future.


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 Post subject: Too close?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 31, 2008 21:41 
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I personally can't see that the motorcyclist did much wrong. He was in the centre of the road, and had good vision, having chosen an off road style bike that is tall and gives good vision. This will have allowed him to see over your car (assuming it is a car you were driving as you don't mention it), and see the emerging threat.

So the blame rests entirely with the driver, who must have been able to see the biker (as above) but was in so much haste to get out of the side turning he did not look properly.

Added to that, if the biker is moving around the humps then he must have presented quite a wide profile to the pink cruiser driver as he approached the side turning. There is a theory that an oncoming bike is hard to spot, as it is too narrow. By moving across the lane the lateral movement is better picked up by the human eye.

William

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