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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2007 03:51 
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lillymay1975 wrote:
I don't think so, i have been hit twice, both were women,


There you go then, make sure there are no women around when you drive. :jester:

But seriously, I'm not saying there is anything wrong with your driving but if you are not prepared to take an unbiased position and look at your driving without the "I'm right" mentality then you will never know and you may continue being a victim.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2007 09:43 
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Roger wrote:
I can relate to two of the four scenaios PS quotes above. The rear end sunt on the roundabout approach - front marker makes as if to go -2nd in line likes the gap too - goes, only to realise that #1 chickened out (I was number 2 sadly - a long time ago - telescoped the front end of my accord into a volvo that was almost unmarked as a result)



Some times the road design doesn't help.

In Wroxham there is a junction on a slope that at first glance looks like a roundabout but is in fact 2 mini roundabouts joined

The locals treat it as one large roundabout but ready to stop at the central giveway line if a tourist doesn't.

Years ago I had to stop on this junction but a Citreon AX behind me didn't - result one AX written off and a cracked ball hitch cover on my Range Rover.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 07:30 
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Had one like this a couple of months back.

A12, Martlesham, Suffolk. I'm waiting at the BT roundabout for a gap. I'm at the front, right hand lane (as I'm going 2nd exit), nothing behind me. Stream of traffic coming out of BT (5:30pm).

In the rear view mirror I see a black Peugeot 307 bearing down on me at speed. The driver seems totally oblivious. I flash the rear fog lights at him repeatedly. He sees me and a look of sheer panic appears on his face. The nose of his car dips and smoke starts pouring off his front tyres.

Fortunately I'd stopped 3-4 feet back from the line. I actually lifted off the brake pedal just before impact (I may even have nudged forward, all happened so quickly I can't remember) then immediately applied full emergency braking. This action I'm sure saved both cars as it allowed the bumpers to absorb most of the hit and shunt me forward just enough to absorb the energy - and I'd left enough room to stop clear of the line.

My car ended up with a broken reinforcing bar in addition to the plastic bumper being distorted. Not sure about the damage to the other guy's, it was driveable though.

I actually had quite a lot of sympathy for the guy - 5:30pm on a Friday it's quite likely he nodded off after a long day at work. Nobody was hurt and damage to both vehicles was pretty minor, we both drove away after exchanging details.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 09:44 
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Hi all

been ages since the accident, the car was written off not long after the accident, she had came at such a speed coming towards the junction, that the whole car was shot to bits underneath. I have been seeing a psychologist, due to me being so unsettled in any car, it is helping tho


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PostPosted: Sat May 03, 2008 07:44 
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Thanks for the update, LilyMary.

Whilst it is of course a great shame it all happened, and that you have suffered evidential shock, it is good you have found some relief from the professional help.

If you feel it would help further by talking through things here - of the incident or generally, please feel free to do so.


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PostPosted: Fri May 09, 2008 07:17 
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Hi - I would also recommend that you take some driving courses that will help you feel more confident in the car - one's that enables you to (especially), feel more in control.
This would be in the form of a professional 'performance driver', so that you can understand more about the space around you, - sometimes called 'spacial awareness'. Then by also relating that, to better 'observational' and 'controlling your environment skills', this will enable you to have more confidence, by feeling more in control.

These are of course things that hopefully will help you (both) to never have the same accident, and preferably never another accident, ever again.
I can never resist either, always recommending that everyone, also go on a skid pan course, as although it may sound horribly scary, it is actually so much fun, and you end up grinning like a cheshire cat, plus you learn so much, in just an afternoon, that it will last you a lifetime.

Do let us know how you get on ....

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PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2008 16:47 
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lillymay1975 wrote:
Hi all

been ages since the accident, the car was written off not long after the accident, she had came at such a speed coming towards the junction, that the whole car was shot to bits underneath. I have been seeing a psychologist, due to me being so unsettled in any car, it is helping tho




Hi Lillymay.


Missed this when it appeared. I hope your insurers are sorting out the claim and the compo for the injuries - including your shock. I trust the police also dealt with this woman too. I do recommend always having camera and mobile phone (set on "recording" so that you know what was said and if liability admitted here :wink: ) Take photos of cars in situ/lay-out of road - if you can and record all the damage and the reg plates. Take the name and address of the driver. They may not always have the poiicy on them - and this can either be chased up by you or your insurers once they get the car reg/details.

As for the shouting woman - maybe she was also shocked and reacting badly. I would have let her continue shouting w#and just taken photos of the cars. Then calmly asked her if she'd "finished raging" and then asked for her details as this is the law of the land. If she refused - call the police and report her.

She hit in the rear. She was liable as this was a junction and you were stationary or just setting off.

I would book a couple of drives with an ADI or an observation session with your local Institute of Advanced Motorists to get back self confidence. This can help avoid the rear-ender muppet.

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PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2008 21:25 
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The easy way out for insurers is to blame the driver who crashes into the veh ahead. Lets face it, 90% of such cases its correct and that is why it doesnt help those few occasions where the berk in front is at fault. If the person in front was never at fault how then could insurers and police procecute those who almost in epidemic proportions were causing crashes just to make false insurance claims for things like whiplash. No its not always the fault of the following veh . I once was a passenger with a pal where the guy ahead at lights stopped quickly, then seemingly not satisfied and in panic at slightly overshooting he reversed into my mate. he later made a claim and the insurers blamed my pal. The effort he took to get evidence from the camera on site and my evidence along with anothers was enormous and only accepted by insurers more than 1 year later.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 02:23 
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A friend of mine had a prang on a junction a couple of weeks back where the B4509 joins the A38 at Falfield (near to J14 of the M5) in South Glos.

From what him and his passenger have told me there were roadworks to his right slightly obscuring visibility. He nudged forward to turn left, saw there was an oncoming car on the A38 and decided not to go. At which point the woman behind him ran smack into the back of him after assuming that he was pulling out.

Pretty clear cut really. But this is where it gets interesting. This guy isn't blaming the woman behind him (when it was clearly her fault as she incorrectly assumed that he was going to go - she had no sight line of the road to her right). Oh no. According to him the accident was caused by a "speeding driver" on the road he was turning on to.

Yes, you did hear that right. His exact words were "if that guy on the A38 hadn't been speeding that accident wouldn't have happened."

Let's look at this closely, shall we?

A car is travelling south along the A38 (we'll call this vehicle 1). It has right-of-way. Another car moves forward to have a look, sees that the road isn't clear and waits. A third vehicle assumes incorrectly that vehicle 2 is going to pull out and runs into the back of him.

Instead of blaming vehicle 3 he blames vehicle 1.

At this point my blood pressure started to increase as he was insistent that vehicle 1 was to blame, and that vehicle 3 was an "unfortunate innocent victim".

I'd be interested to see people's opinions on here.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 08:57 
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Hmm - of course he was right when he said "if that guy on the A38 hadn't been speeding that accident wouldn't have happened." except that it should have been re-said as "if that guy on the A38 hadn't been THERE that accident wouldn't have happened." :)

Mind you by the same token your friend was equally to blame because "if he had not been at that junction at that time the accident would not have happened". In fact almost everyone and everything he and any of the other involved drivers had encountered that morning had some influence on the exact circumstances and could be considered partly to blame.(This was held against a British person in Saudi in the early eighties because he took a taxi from the airport, driven by a taxi driver, which was in an accident)

The accident is clearly the responsibility of the last person in the chain (car 3).

Regards

Malc


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 09:24 
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I can think of just one circumstance where I would have sympathy for car 3 and that is if the driver of car 3 is on an emergency mission and more observant than the driver of car 2, AND the driver of car 1 was speeding dramatically faster than the road is good for. Please let me explain.

1) Car 2's driver is "by the book" - goes to junction without loking left and right until (almost) last moment, realises roadworks so stops, creeps forward to see what's coming, about to commit himself when he sees the speeding bullet (car 3) and anchos up.

2) Car 3's driver is more advanced, hanging back a bit realising that the roadworks is going to make it very difficult for him to negotiate this junction unless he can rely on snapshots around the roadworks from further back, so he hangs well back looking up that road until he is confident the fella in front has shot off. He now has his last glance and sees it still clear to the right (speeding bullet car 1 out of eyeshot) and goes for it - with plenty of verve as he knows if he does not shoot, his last decent snapshot is out of date and he will have to inch out.

Yes I'm speculating - but I've almost been there on a few occasions (and actually was back in the eighties when I rearended a Volvo estate who's driver bottled it on a roundabout having given me all indications of going for the gap big enough for both of us)! These days in such situations, I hang back for a vital extra tenth of a second or so to satisfy myself beyond ANY doubt that the front marker hasn't bottled it, even if it means missing a gap.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 09:31 
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Mallycoop wrote:
Hmm - of course he was right when he said "if that guy on the A38 hadn't been speeding that accident wouldn't have happened." except that it should have been re-said as "if that guy on the A38 hadn't been THERE that accident wouldn't have happened." :)


That's pretty much what I said to him - the only contribution the guy on the main road made to the accident was his presence. His speed was irrelevant!

But no, my friend is insistent that the accident was completely the fault of vehicle 1 because "he was speeding". And nothing will convince him otherwise.

Even though the driver of vehicle 3 admitted full liability. Even though her insurers are providing him with a courtesy car. Even though her insurers have told him and his passenger to go and see a doctor in case of whiplash. No, in his mind it's driver 1's fault "because he was speeding".

Driver 1 wasn't even involved. How can it possibly be his fault?

I asked him two questions. Did he have a radar gun pointed at driver 1's car? No? Did he have telemetry on driver 1's car? No? Then you don't know how fast he was going.

As I've told him repeatedly the only relevant fact regarding driver 1 was that driver 2 (my friend who got rear-ended) didn't have time to pull out safely due to driver 1's presence. But he simply will not accept that driver 1 wasn't remotely to blame for the accident. Because apparently "he was breaking the speed limit". Therefore according to him it was driver 1's fault.

*bangs head against wall*

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 13:44 
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I witnessed an accident (which I've described here before) when a woman in an old Jap MPV pulled out from my left to turn right (i.e. to go in the opposite direction to mine), narrowly missing me, when there was clearly a car coming from her left too. He ploughed in to the back of her, despite trying to brake and swerve. Me and Mrs Theboy gave witness statements as we were worried that he might be blamed, as he went into her rear.

When a policeman phoned me later about this, he told me that the woman driver had said the accident was caused by the man speeding (which I'm not sure he was), to which policeman had replied "Well, why the hell did you pull out on him then?"


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 07, 2008 13:08 
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Johnnytheboy wrote:
When a policeman phoned me later about this, he told me that the woman driver had said the accident was caused by the man speeding (which I'm not sure he was), to which policeman had replied "Well, why the hell did you pull out on him then?"


Woops - keep stum - this cop obviously has missed the free treatment to remove that part of the brain which controls the desire to blame "speeding motorists " for all the ills of the world . 8-)

For the OP - I've been smacked up the rear end a couple of times( and my daughter once -she had legal aid get some dosh off the idiot) --both times the rear ender's insurance has coughed up -unless you've got a large blue and red light on the ar** end -they won't see you - and I'll bet some BiB will come on to tells us that even then you're still invisible :lol: :lol:

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