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 Post subject: D/C close encounter
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 13:24 
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Not really a near miss but an example of a bit of very poor judgement (by another driver) and a question about technique.

I was driving to work yesterday on the A413 between Chalfont St Peter and the A40. It's a 2 miles long stretch d/c with wide grassed reservation. Southbound (my direction) there's a left turn for local traffic with a gap in the reservation opposite. This is used by n/bound traffic on the opposite c/way to either enter the turn or change direction. There's a third lane on n/bound c/way with ample space for a number of vehicle to wait for a suitable crossing opportunity. The s/bound c/way has deceleration and acceleration lanes ~200m before and after the turn.

I was at ~70-75 mph in L1. L2 was clear with some traffic in L1 and L2 behind me - not close enough to be of interest at that time. At ~8s from from the turning, I saw #1 waiting vehicle cross ahead of me and then turn in my direction using the acceleration lane. No problem - this was more or less expected. I simply have to judge whether he will get up to speed and join L1 before I arrive or whether I need to move into L2. I'm just assessing this, now perhaps 5s away, when #2 pulls out from waiting area, also to head s/bound, but instead of crossing into the acceleration area sticks in L2. A bit trickier now - is he going to stay there so I can undertake in L1, in which case will I then have to veer into L2 immediately to avoid #1 who is about to join L1 from the acceleration lane, or is he going to change to L1 and force me to switch to L2. Where exactly is the traffic behind me? If he does go into L1, is L2 still clear behind/alongside me?

My snap judgement was that firm braking and stay in L1 was my best option. Didn't need full on braking because, as things developed, I realised #2 would stick to L2. So I untertook him at much reduced speed differential and indicated some degree of irritation at his badly judged manoeuvre (not often I find it necessary to do that) before moving into L2 to overtake #1 who had just joined L1 ahead of me.

As it turned out, I was not seriously inconvenienced because I was far enough away to take appropriate evasive action. However, it was unpredicted manoeuvre by #2 driver and, imo, very poor judgement.

The question I pose for debate is - is it reasonably acceptable practice, in the situation where one is joining a 2 lane c/way from the offside, with approaching traffic only in L1, to use L2 to accelerate up to speed and expect the approaching traffic to underatke in L1?


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 Post subject: Re: D/C close encounter
PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 13:42 
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Observer wrote:
The question I pose for debate is - is it reasonably acceptable practice, in the situation where one is joining a 2 lane c/way from the offside, with approaching traffic only in L1, to use L2 to accelerate up to speed and expect the approaching traffic to underatke in L1?


It's certainly not something I would do routinely, but now you have asked, I note that it passes the 'primary' test of well planned driving in as much as it does not (in itself) require another driver to alter course or speed.

I think the principle danger comes because the L1 driver cannot predict the behaviour of the L2 joiner - it really isn't safe to assume that the L2 joiner is going to stay in lane.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 09, 2007 13:42 
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The HC is unclear on this matter:

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/16.htm#149

but I would actually say that neither driver was incorrect in where they chose to position on the road. One might argue however, that if you are remaining on the carriageway, you should choose a gap that will not cause any other driver to have to take avoiding action, and that as undertaking is not strictly permitted, he forced you to take avoiding action.

That said, I expect his actions were preferable to moving over into lane 1, causing you to swerve into lane 2 at the last minute. If there was room for you to make a lane change safely before reaching him, I would suggest that he should have entered into lane 1 as if he had joined from the slip lane.


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 Post subject: Re: D/C close encounter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 09:57 
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Observer wrote:
The question I pose for debate is - is it reasonably acceptable practice, in the situation where one is joining a 2 lane c/way from the offside, with approaching traffic only in L1, to use L2 to accelerate up to speed and expect the approaching traffic to underatke in L1?


It is not ideal but it is common and accepted practice, especially where there is a lot of traffic in L1.

An equally common but IMO worse practice is to join from the nearside with traffic in L1 and move directly to L2 or L3. Often I have been nearly in a near miss situation because I have moved over as the L2 lunger has made their move.


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 21:12 
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I encounter a similar scenario fairly regularly on the way home. See Streetmap for the location.

The B762 is a 40mph DC and I'm heading east in L1. The road drops fairly gently downhill for about 400m before the roundabout and the speed limit drops to 30mph about 100m from the roundabout. The central reservation is not wide enough to protect vehicles turning right out of Kennishead Rd to head east on the B762 - any car sitting in the central reservation waiting to complete their right turn would be blocking L2 westbound. It can sometimes take a while to get a big enough gap in both directions to allow you to safely complete the turn in 1 go.

Vehicles often turn right out of Kennishead Rd into L2 of the DC even when L1 is occupied, or will be by the time they complete the manouvre and straighten up in L2. (The Kennishead Rd part of the junction is actually so large that, in rush hour, 2 vehicles will queue side by side and cross the junction to turn right together)

When I encounter drivers turning into L2 when I'm approaching in L1 I have to drop back in L1 to leave it clear for the turning vehicle, even if they have no intention of using it. I can't afford to risk my life assuming that they've seen me. :o

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 10, 2007 21:43 
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I would say it's wrong and potentially dangerous for them to join into L2 in those circumstances, precisely because it makes their intentions ambiguous. I know a driver who was obviously far less competent than you who failed to cope with this situation and ended up rear-ending a moped rider in L2 at a very high closing speed because he (my incompetent acquiantance) assumed the moped rider would move across into L1. Obviously that ended about as badly as it's possible to imagine. If I was in that situation I would be inclined to treat the L2-er as occupying both lanes and resist the temptation to undertake unless/until I had a chance to observe them for long enough to be certain that they were going to stay put.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 00:04 
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You give me too much credit - it's a simple matter of self preservation. If I maintain course and speed and they stick in L2 I'm ok. If I maintain course and speed but they come into L1 I'm toast. If I make sure that they can't hit me regardless of what they do or do not do I don't end up eating my dinner with a straw.

It as, as the yanks say, a no-brainer, once you actually give any thought to your interactions with other road users. It's just a pity that driver education stops, for the most part, with the issue of the test pass certificate.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 00:28 
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MrsMiggins wrote:
The central reservation is not wide enough to protect vehicles turning right out of Kennishead Rd to head east on the B762 - any car sitting in the central reservation waiting to complete their right turn would be blocking L2 westbound. It can sometimes take a while to get a big enough gap in both directions to allow you to safely complete the turn in 1 go.


I think the right technique to use in these cases, as the emerging vehicle, is to turn the car to reduce the angle to the crssing traffic (obviously heading in the right direction). This makes it a bit more difficult to assess speed of the traffic now coming from more or less behind but it's a lot safer and allows the crossing to be treated as two separate steps. Always amazes me when people come half-way out and then stop at a right angle to the traffic flow, presenting themselves as maximum size target.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 00:33 
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Most mornings someone at that junction is blocking L2 westbound. It's actually usually 2 cars together. Strength in numbers? :roll:

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 11, 2007 06:16 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
I think the principle danger comes because the L1 driver cannot predict the behaviour of the L2 joiner - it really isn't safe to assume that the L2 joiner is going to stay in lane.


MrsMiggins wrote:
When I encounter drivers turning into L2 when I'm approaching in L1 I have to drop back in L1 to leave it clear for the turning vehicle, even if they have no intention of using it. I can't afford to risk my life assuming that they've seen me. :o


greenv8s wrote:
I would say it's wrong and potentially dangerous for them to join into L2 in those circumstances, precisely because it makes their intentions ambiguous.


We're agreed then - it's potentially dangerous to do something ambiguous.

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