Safe Speed Forums

As said in the other thread check out this guy

http://www.nuttycyclist.co.uk/

for some constructive advice.



There are other links in the archives on this site. In May 2004 and March 2004 - we discussed roundabouts at length from a diver's point of view. Maybe Paul can do a search of the links and post for a cross-reference to help newbies and lurkers to get full picture from driver side?

Now I'll agree with Papaumau (extinct poster - was a very likeable troll at time though ) (thread ca may 2004) that discipline is notoriously poor at roundabouts. Many drivers take these too quickly as do cyclists (Speak from experience of nasties) )

Franklin on page 99 says that most accidents occur at the mouth of these roundabouts.

He points out very correctly that a cyclist is very difficult for drivers to spot. (and being seen is essential common sense!)

There are so many SMIDSY's for little cyclist and it pays to be vigilant and be aware of the driver's problems in seeing you.

So many accidents with cyclists do end up a split liability - for a variety of reasons and one the main onesis lack of common sense on the part of the cyclist - such as placing himself in obvious danger!

Good planning and positioning are vital. In short it's C O A S T! for ALL of us!

Cyclists should take particular heed of the give-way markings and to keep well clear of the outside edge of all roundabouts.

The onus on the cyclist at all times is to ensure they are visible to all other road users Drivers at roundabouts tend to look for cars and not cyclists. I speak from very traumatic experiences of dealing with incidents in my career to date - and contrary to popular myth - we do look and investigate each detail. Charges - especially in our patch - have to be justified and without loophole they also have to be FAIR AND SQUARE!

Be ware that some roundabouts encourage a high speed approach and it is up the cyclist to make sure he is defensive and VISIBLE by riding prominently and well paced to prevent a dangerous cut up. So adopt a primary position – and make sure your bike is in the same position as it would be if in the car!

I recommend Franklin's book as his diagrams are seriously excellent (very clearly illustrates COAST by diagram) He does not acrronym it - but it is there in ever word in his book!- ) and show how a cyclist can become a KSI if not vigilant. Please remember that drivers are watching out for other cars, selecting their gears and weaving to get to the lane they want. Hence being aware of each other’s requirements ( COAST’s C for consideration) does help)!

Be aware that since roads curve to the left, and a driver will be looking for traffic to his right – he may not be monitoring traffic in front. Lot of rear end prangs with cars and nearside prangs to traffic already on the roundabout occur as a result of this slip and for a slow cyclist – can be fatal. Also a driver accelerating away will not be as quick to hit the brake as in normal driving – so when on and even approaching roundabouts make sure you pace the riding accordingly. Concentrate on the traffic condition, observe and anticipate and make sure you allow sufficient space and time so as not to conflict with the driver approaching the circle.. –per page 97 of Cycle Craft!

Be aware that as a cyclist your acceleration and gear changes are not in the same league as motorised vehicles. If you can – keep speed high and within the flow of the traffic around you (per the nutty advice) keep in a high gear if you can! Like drivers you approach prepared to stop but ready to go and is with drivers if you have to slow to almost stationary you have to gear down to low gear to get the impetus on restart Just like the driver.

(Drivers – be aware that cyclists with derailleur gears can only change gears when pedalling – and be aware of very different levels of skill, stamina and experience!)

So we are back to COAST ! Being aware of all traffic conditions on approach to the roundabout and some forward planning.

Also for all two wheeled road users – roundabouts carry the added hazard of requiring you to brake on a curve. At an area of the road, which is prone to grease and oil, deposits.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Single Lane Roundabouts

Was in two minds whetther to set up as new thread...

These are not a problem on minor roads but a real headache on busy roads. For some reason drivers do try to race the rider to the roundabout. OK – they feel happier getting ahead of this hazard but here we have the conflict.

Drivers sadly underestimate a cyclist’s speed and misjudge the space and time required to do the overtakes and return to lane in time in these circumstances. Yep – have seen the results in the past – enough to know this is an everyday error by too many.. If there is an island – you also have a pinch point as well.

Now on these types of roundabouts (and there can be sets of them these days as part of “safety traffic calming nonsense which causes more problems for all of us than it actually resolves!)

I speak from experience of riding between these darned things and it’s hard work! I can maintain a constant speed on the bike but a car will be accelerating on the straights and slowing through the roundabouts and we have this mock game of “tiggy” on wheels!

So ..at the first one –plan and get into position about 60 feet from the roundabout and make it difficult for a dangerous overtake by adopting a primary position and once through the first silly roundabout and on a straight – if you can assist the overtake and if not keep to the primary for your safety Signal if you intend to turn left or right toi the chap behind you and if going straight on – take the most direct route and keep to a primary position throughout these roundabouts.

[

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Multi-lane roundabouts

Common purpose of these is to keep high volumes of traffic moving (traffic lights rather defeats the objective) Again – you approach prepared to stop but ready to go. If you are stopped at a busy roundabout – use the cover of the outer lane car to make your move.

Main danger is that we all weave to get to the lane and exit we want and again – best practice for driver and cyclist alike is to use COAST and OAP – plan ahead! Begin to occupy a primary position as soon as you see the roundabout sign and if you intend to turn right or are on a fast road – then move to the right hand lane about 350 feet or so from the junction

On a left turn – keep about7 feet from the edge unless the circle has several lanes – in which case go for the middle of the left lane, Signal if you can but make sure that this does not lead to a dangerous overtake from man from numptyland.

If you take the second exit – try to get further to the right of your lane but not too far right as it leads to a dangerous undertake and if there are three lanes – move to the centre of the middle lane and on a four laner – use the second lane if you want to go past the first exit., Being on the right side of the left lane usually gives the shortest and thus quickest ride through the roundabout. (Cyclists thus do this for a reason – they want to get clear of drivers as soon as possible – so not an “annoy the driver” tactic”

Right turns at these multi-lane monsters cause the most grief. You need to be able to cycle swiftly and skilfully at a steady speed of ca 20 mph. Follow my right tunr advice to get to right hand lane/turn right lane. Whne on the circle – ride to the left of centre on the right hand lane intil you are opposite the entry before your exit and gradually spiral out of the roundabout and adopt the primary position on your exit road and smooth out to secondary for your ride. If you can – or feel it necessary – give a quick left signal.

I am sure that I do not need to remind all road users to keep eyes (and ear as well) alert and if on a bike – negotiation with the driver certainly assists you Be aware that other traffic can cause a SMIDSY for some drivers so – up to the cyclist to be aware of all traffic around him or her and when on the road – never assume and never leave anything to chance..

Read the road and adopt COAST – especially where the lanes on these things merge into singles and create pinch points for everyone on them!


.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Mini roundabouts

Usually used as “traffic calming!” and large vehicles are allowed to drive over them! But when cars do this – causes a problem to a cyclist ias the overtake could be dangerous

Our other problem is that the markings sometimes give little warning to all road users - especially if a driver fails to cede right of way. And for some strange reason far too many drivers are not sure about rights of way at minis.

The other problem is the tightness of the turns as well and this means drivers can easily misread the cyclist on these. So adopt a low gear and accelerate out of danger asap.

Look – they are no different to other roundabouts – same procedure.


gyratories.

Dee diddy dee deeee- diddyi-diddy dee-e-e!

Remember the magic roundabout thread?

These are the enlarged roundabouts and some are within roundabouts. Cofused – You will be!

This forces correct lane discipline but for a cyclist – it means they are faced with as longer period of weaving in the fast flowing traffic to get to their exit. It means they may be in a middle lane with traffic passing on both sides and this is not a pleasant experience. Ironically – these are worse for a cyclist in slow moving traffic than fast flowing traffic.

Basically cyclists should approach as per a normal roundabout and make sure their positioning makes visible to the cars and negotiate with a driver., If possible try to adopt the driver who helps you by keeping within his shield.

If in any doubt of safety or you need an intermediate exit and you just cannot reach within the heavy flow – by all means pull into the side and wait for a reasonable lull.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Excellent advice IG. Many thanks for these cycling posts. Despite being an experienced and almost accident free cyclist I have learned a great deal of useful tips.

But...


Beware the outer lane driver who uses hard acceleration to beat a vehicle approaching from the left, which can leave you dangerously exposed.

Roundabouts - a nightmare most of the time as Cycling forums reveal. The problem is lack of acceleration after stopping to give way even if you are in an appropriate gear. The same problems that afflict us as car drivers exist - you can't rely on indications. Even if you are approching a clear roundabout at a decent speed a following driver will generally overtake and "cut you up" because they are not using the same observation skills as you are.

I've been nearly side-swiped in the car by a white-van driver which came from nowhere, i.e. he joined the roundabout at an entry point I couldn't see because of trees on the roundabout, at high speed. Imagine the effect on a cyclist.