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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:40 
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graball wrote:
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When I cycle in London cars slow me down.

I travel at 16mph average speed in London on my bike during rush hour, in my car I travel at 9mph average.

Cyclists do not slow cars down.

Cars slow cars down (and cars slow cyclists down).


HELLO....Earth to planet Weepy....there is life on earth outside of London, you know!

The principles apply elsewhere.

Have a look at this video.

While I don't agree with the cyclist's sanctimony, he does have a point - why is the motorist so angry at being held up by a cyclist preventing him from joining a queue of, errr, cars?


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 10:52 
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Points for discussion

Not all pedestrians obey the flashing green man and wait for the next cycle of the lights.

Not all cyclists can average 16mph through London and exceed 30mph so they do not hold up motor vehicles.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 14:14 
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Newer crossings have pedestrian detectors. Assuming they're working properly, the lights should turn green very shortly after the last pedestrian has stepped off the crossing.


Not round my way they don't. Most crossings only have one or two peds and they are usually 50yards down the road before the green light and I've never seen anyone nearly get run over on an amber flashing light...again you must live in a dangerous part of the world.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 14:22 
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graball wrote:
Quote:
When I cycle in London cars slow me down.

I travel at 16mph average speed in London on my bike during rush hour, in my car I travel at 9mph average.

Cyclists do not slow cars down.

Cars slow cars down (and cars slow cyclists down).


HELLO....Earth to planet Weepy....there is life on earth outside of London, you know!

The principles apply elsewhere.

Have a look at this video.

While I don't agree with the cyclist's sanctimony, he does have a point - why is the motorist so angry at being held up by a cyclist preventing him from joining a queue of, errr, cars?


Again Glasgow, a large city. Unfortunately a very large proportion of this country's population lives outside the cities and travel outside rush hour, so the pretence that cyclists are held up by cars for the majority of the time is false. Also pedestrian crossings that are useful/necessary in large towns where ten or more pedestrians would be crossing at once, are useless in small towns and villages, where you are far more likely to see a lone pedestrian cross than in excess of 5.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 05, 2013 20:49 
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On the rural roads round here there's no question - I HAVE been held up by cyclists.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 00:15 
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Mole wrote:
On the rural roads round here there's no question - I HAVE been held up by cyclists.


I get held up by most things I catch up to.

Then again I quite enjoy overtaking.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 00:29 
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I also enjoy the ( ancient, almost forgotten )art of overtaking. With a lot of PROPER cyclists, it;'s a joy. Give them courtesy and they cause no problems. ( i never forget i was once a cyclist), but the barrow boys are always out to cause problems.

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:20 
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There are certainly some militant types that will not accept that they or the larger group they purport to represent are part of the problem.

There was an interesting programme about logic on bbc4 last night.

Cyclists ignore red lights.

Ignoring red lights is wrong.

All cyclists are wrong.


Cyclists are killed by motor vehicles.

Killing people is bad.

All drivers are bad.


Nothing will improve where the above fallacious logic is used.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 12:11 
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Toltec wrote:
Mole wrote:
On the rural roads round here there's no question - I HAVE been held up by cyclists.


I get held up by most things I catch up to.

Then again I quite enjoy overtaking.


Hard on a single track road with a big bunch of them taking most of it up in a big peloton, pretending they're doing the Tour de France!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 06, 2013 16:20 
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Mole wrote:
Toltec wrote:
Mole wrote:
On the rural roads round here there's no question - I HAVE been held up by cyclists.


I get held up by most things I catch up to.

Then again I quite enjoy overtaking.


Hard on a single track road with a big bunch of them taking most of it up in a big peloton, pretending they're doing the Tour de France!


I have an obscure sense of humour, it often gets me into trouble.

Read it as -

I have to share, but sometimes there is a bright side.

Or

I don't care what vehicle they are using only that I can pass them.

Or

Shit happens, deal with it.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 00:53 
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I just read it as: "I get held up by anything moving slower than I am, but I enjoy overtaking"


...which is fair enough! :)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 07, 2013 11:40 
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The biggest problem with overtaking cyclists in urban areas around our way, isn't so much the quantity of cyclists but the lack of overtaking opportunities. Since they started putting ridiculous little islands in the middle of 40MPH roads every 50 yards or so, it's pretty much impossible to make a clean, safe overtake on many urban roads these days. (still it's all done in the name of safety and the control freaks know best)

I often wonder how much less our gross national debt would be, if the roads had been left as they were 20 years ago, instead of the pointless billions we have wasted on them with all these pointless changes in the name of "safety" and the accident and KSI rate would no doubt still be the same due to safer cars anyway.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 09:04 
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Toltec wrote:
Not all cyclists can average 16mph through London and exceed 30mph so they do not hold up motor vehicles.


What part of this don't you follow

Average speed when I drive my car through London = 8 or 9mph
Average Speed when I cycle though London = 12-16mph

If I cycle in London it's quicker than taking my car, it doesn't matter if I get up to 30mph between the lights, it's an average speed, and on my bike my average speed is faster than that when I'm in my car.

Cyclists don't slow cars down in London, other cars do, and other cars slow cyclists down in London.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 09:10 
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graball wrote:
Since they started putting ridiculous little islands in the middle of 40MPH roads every 50 yards or so


The guy that invented the traffic island was killed trying to cross the road get to it. Does that help?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 09:16 
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Mole wrote:
On the rural roads round here there's no question - I HAVE been held up by cyclists.


Yup, they should be shot, or it should at least be legal to ram then into the hedge.

I was on tube train once, the driver announced there would be a delay of a few seconds before he closed the door, the guy opposite me tutted and rolled his eyes and was clearly quite angry. Was that you?


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 14:40 
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Mole wrote:
Toltec wrote:
Mole wrote:
On the rural roads round here there's no question - I HAVE been held up by cyclists.


I get held up by most things I catch up to.

Then again I quite enjoy overtaking.


Hard on a single track road with a big bunch of them taking most of it up in a big peloton, pretending they're doing the Tour de France!


presumeably on a single track road you wouldn't be able to overtake a lone cyclist, so the number is a little irrelevant ?
should they pull over to let a motorist past ?..... or, how long is reasonable for them not to pull over ?
getting stuck behind someone or something is a risk on any single track road...


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 16:05 
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What part of this don't you follow

Average speed when I drive my car through London = 8 or 9mph
Average Speed when I cycle though London = 12-16mph

If I cycle in London it's quicker than taking my car, it doesn't matter if I get up to 30mph between the lights, it's an average speed, and on my bike my average speed is faster than that when I'm in my car.

Cyclists don't slow cars down in London, other cars do, and other cars slow cyclists down in London.


Again, weepy your appalling maths is letting you down. Average speeds are dependent on the maximum speed you can achieve. If you cannot hit 30MPH because you are constantly stuck behind a cyclist only doing 20MPH, who can then go up the side of stationary traffic, all the time that you are stationary then your average speed is going to be less than the cyclist but it doesn't mean that he wasn't holding you up...understand?

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 16:07 
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graball wrote:
Since they started putting ridiculous little islands in the middle of 40MPH roads every 50 yards or so


The guy that invented the traffic island was killed trying to cross the road get to it. Does that help?



It might have helped if he had got knocked down before he invented it...;-)

Maybe if we had traffic planners with an ounce of common sense, they would understand they are dangerous for this very reason then....doh!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 16:55 
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weepej wrote:
graball wrote:
Since they started putting ridiculous little islands in the middle of 40MPH roads every 50 yards or so


The guy that invented the traffic island was killed trying to cross the road get to it. Does that help?


No - it's pretty irrelevant.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 08, 2013 17:02 
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weepej wrote:
Mole wrote:
On the rural roads round here there's no question - I HAVE been held up by cyclists.


Yup, they should be shot, or it should at least be legal to ram then into the hedge.

I was on tube train once, the driver announced there would be a delay of a few seconds before he closed the door, the guy opposite me tutted and rolled his eyes and was clearly quite angry. Was that you?


What on earth are you smoking this evening Weepy?! First of all, I have never suggested they should either be shot or rammed into a hedge. Someone tried to assert that cyclists didn't hold cars up and I gave an example of a situation when they DID. Pure fact, nothing more, nothing less. Nobody suggested anything about retribution (until you decided to try and put words into my mouth).

Secondly, I'm not often in London (mercifully!) so it's unlikely to have been me. If, however, it had been one of those days when I had to get up at 04.30, drive 40 miles to the mainline station, catch the 05.56 to Euston, cross London on the tube, have a meeting, cross back on the tube and was already running late to catch my train home AND there was no good reason for the delay...

...I might well have done.


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