Safe Speed Forums

Try riding like that in the UK and you'll be left-hooked, forced into the gutter, overtaken as you approach standing queues of traffic (cars, that is) etc, all at the hands of those oh-so-saintly car drivers. You're confusing cause and effect, as usual.

When you say riding "like that", which type of cyclist are you referencing? It's not entirely clear from your post.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Happy to clarify, I am of course referring to your Holland example.

As jbr indicates, you making a massive biased and partisan selective sample there.

The main reason many don't cycle in the UK is fear of motorised traffic. Now I think there's a slight perception issue going on there; cycling amongst london traffic is relatively safe, but the big roads, fast speeds clearly cause a lot of people to think twice before they get on a bike, and you only see the ones that are prepared to do so.

It's just in Amsterdam many more are prepared to do so because the place is set up for cyclists, therefore you're more likely to see people in normal clothes. There are lycra clad racers out there, but they are less visible, whereas in london they are more visible cos there're less "normal" people cycling.

It's not hard!

malcomw in the bunker:

http://vimeo.com/36287895

to weepej even if it's a bit early in a thread to invoke Godwin's law.

ad-hominem creep alert?

I still say it comes down to personalities. The kind of driver who thinks the answer is to get his own back with “left-hooked, forced into the gutter” shouldn’t be on the road any more than a cyclist with the same s y ethic. If I had that attitude then I would have been banged-up long ago for ABH or GBH against people who have wrong me.

That’s why I’m interested in the vile attitude in this country where it’s endemic for some reason. The only thing I have come up with is ‘city mentality’ but having said that Amsterdam is a city I have to say the times I have been forced into the gutter, (and off my bike on one occasion), were not deliberate; the driver “didn’t see me” or was doing something else he shouldn’t in the car...

The biggest reason I am put off using my bike is the traffic, which is why I only use it on good days in the Spring/Summer to work. I have found back roads and a cycle path for much of it but I still have to endure a ‘death run’ for a significant part where my life hangs in the balance at the random will of others. I want to do the green thing and get fitter and save money but the infrastructure just isn’t there, yet, and I’m not convinced the attitude will ever change. It’s a chicken and egg thing really; the way to change peoples’ perception is to encourage bike power but that’s not going to happen until the roads are safer. Also, if cycling increases then so too will the nutter element.

As a self-confessed pavement user on a bike, where safe to do so, if more pavements were partitioned to help cyclist that would be an immense help. I know there’s strong opinions on this but I see plenty of places where all that’s been done is someone’s painted a line of paint on the path. If you have ever come off a bike at the behest of a driver I can tell you there’s nothing quite so horrific and it was the worst accident I have ever had in my life to date! You’ve almost got to have a screw loose to go along some of the roads I know in Birmingham on a bicycle.

In short, I don’t have an answer which is why I reserve my cycling to the countryside and canals these days; (a place where peds and cyclists co-habit in harmony without lines or even a keep left policy). I would prefer to run in but 4 miles each way isn’t something I can do anymore in my old age...

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

I think the biggest problem is that Cycling has been hi-jacked by the Holier_Than_Thou Greens and trendy lefites (Who most people hate regardless of which part of the political spectrum they come from)!

Its a bit like Racist/Sexist Jokes! They are not meant to upset Women/BME's. They are meant to piss off those awsomely irritiating, Typically White/Male, "Right-on" wannabees who make it their professional business to be serially "Offended" on the behalf of supposadly wronged third parties! (Who, most of the time, dont actually give a damn)

The Women/BME's just get caught in the crossfire, as do the cyclists.....!

_________________
"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

So you've watched Jeremy Vine's Big Question on Sundays too then Dusty.

Yep, they make me puke too. The sensible on there are brow-beaten into a quiescent state with PC nobs vociferous denunciation of all things politically incorrect. I can't even tell a joke these days without offending someone.

Add: I've got one I hope.. So I knocked on a farmer's door the other day and said to the owner "do you know six of your chickens aren't laying?"

"How do you know that?", he asked.

Me: "I've just run over them"

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Yes, I would generally agree with this. It's like the climate change scam. Anything perceived to regress our society is taken up by the "right on" brigade with religious fervour. I wonder if they would burn heretics given the chance?

Despite my deliberately exaggerated arguments above in this thread, my opinion on cycling is that I have no objection to anyone pedalling away doing what they want in a safe and reasonable manner. I expect the same tolerance to be shown towards me. My objections come along when cyclists want me to actively change my way of life to accommodate them. If you want to do something then, fine. You know the rules, practical limitations and problems related to your actions at the outset. Just don't expect me to help or be enthusiastic.

_________________
Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Was watching some documentories a while back about the development of the national grid and was struck at the diference between the attitude of central government during the early-mid 20th century and that of the government during the early 21st!

1930's through 1960's there was much emphasis in increacing the availability of water, electricity Gas, Fuels etc and reducing the costs of these comodities to the people. Nowadays it is completly turned on its head. Government emphasis seems today about restricting availability and deliberatly increacing the costs! And they try to tell us they are doing us a favour! and a surprisingly large number of people fall for it! Its insane!




Remember that bit of propaganda (subsequntly withdrawn) that depicted Schoolchidren who werent "with the program" being killed! You bet your life they would! Given the chance!

_________________
"The road to a police state is paved with public safety legislation"

A bit off topic, maybe, but there was an interesting programme on BBC4 last night about the cavaliers and roundheads during the civil war. The cavaliers had a devil may care attitude whilst the roundhead puritans wanted all rules to be followed, nothing to be done on sundays except pray and xmas to be banned. They reckon modern britain is still split by modern followers of both parties and I can see more roundhead policies being forced on us on a year by year basis.

_________________
My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Yes, I meant to watch that Graball. History repeats itself, a truism which hits home more so the older I get.

I’m not so sure about that dude. I think we, the people, know exactly what’s going on but as a nation we are apathetic and impotent.

We know bull s t when we see it just as we know when politicians are lying through their teeth with false promises and bent statistics. Recently someone told it as it is and called a PM “liar”. We need more of that when and where the cap fits and, I’ve said it before, the word bull s t should be a legitimate word used in political life without recourse. When elected officials are corrupt Teflon-coated liars what hope is there for us and more importantly what message does it send out.

I know what’s happening to the NHS, for example, I see it every day and I don’t need some telling me differently.

_________________
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

It's terrible the way the high cost of motoring and traffic laws "discourage" driving...



Makes me wonder where they draw the line over how much potential damage is required of an activity before "discouraging" it through safety regulation is warranted. There is no doubt that bicycles still have the potential to cause some damage, even if it is less than motorised vehicles.

Clearly we should not "discourage" handgun ownership, because bombs can kill so many more people.

_________________
Regulation without education merely creates more criminals.