Safe Speed Forums

Have to drive on the pavement? It certainly sounds like you're defending it!

Perhaps peoples respect for good driving etiquette diminishes with how thoughtfully roads are designed, ie, if "they're" not going to try, or in some cases design a junction/bus stop/etc seemingly just to spite me, why should I?

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

It's a fact that my respect for the traffic laws in this country have taken a downward spiral in the last few years and it does seem as though local councils are doing evrything they can to make it more difficult for the motorist and although I don't condone breaking sensible laws, there are stupid speed limits popping up all over the place which don't get my full attention. I DON'T condone driving on pavements but if people do then I can understand why they are tempted to do it, If the pavement is actually wider than the road, which is becoming more common these days. I know of several un-neccessarilly wide or sticking out pavements which serve no purpose apart from making the road, narrower, more dangerous (people are tempted to enter the wrong lane) and discourage free flowing traffic at junctions.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Yes there is an housing estate round by me which is served by a wide straight road and every 200yards there is a bus stop but each bus stop has a mini refuge opposite it to stop vehicles overtaking the bus whilst stopped. What is that all about apart from making life difficult for the sake of it?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I'm not suggesting Graball or Hairyben are wrong in their assessments of some road redesigns (I don't know the specific locations referred to so I'd rather not make a judegement call), but I have seen several junctions redesigned to make life easier for pedestrians. Unfortunately in some cases this has a negative effect on vehicles using the road (sometimes even including cycles!).

Maybe a bit of empathy for others is what is required.

I struggle to believe that roads are redesigned just out of spite for the motorist! That's a bit too far into tin-foil-hat territroy for me!

Maybe you should try and get hold of a copy of your local coucils' local traffic plan for the coming year. Ours specifically state that they are intending to get more people out of cars onto public transport ( if only there was decent public transport!)

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

No it is for the sake of the "terminally stupid" who cross without thinking. The mini refuge "allows" them to walk across the road in front of the bus only looking in one direction.

Like the group I saw today. They would rather risk walking across a road of free flowing traffic than walk 10 feet to a pelican crossing and push a button. This, IMO, being a good indicator of their behaviour when crossing other roads.

Just as well I and the drivers, both in front and behind me, read what they were going to do and slowed down. At which point they broke ranks and ran across the road between the us.

Google Map Of pic below

Doesn't surprise me, the road network is operating way beyond it's capacity. The only way around that is to get people to walk, cycle or use PT for journeys that they can.

Of course this still doesn't mean that they're deliberately engineering roads to spite motorists, it could (and almost certainly is) to enable pedestrians to move around more easily. Something that hasn't been done for a long time.

There you have it Graball, theboxers has got it! It isn't out of spite. It's to aid pedestrians.

I won't comment on the description and behaviour of said pedestrians...

But surely the refuge should be separated from the bus stop to allow other vehicles to overtake stationary buses. As it stands, it's just plain spiteful. This is an example of this arrangement in Stockport:

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

With respect, this is not "the only way". We could build more better roads or improve our existing ones.

Time and again I hear "you can't build yourself out of congestion". This is logical rubbish. Of course you can.

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

I got the impression much of the railway network was also operating at capacity.

And maybe part of the answer is to spread the development around a bit more so we are making good use of more of the road network.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

The road netwok isn't beyond it's capacity but congestion is being created around towns by poor traffic and highways planning. The roads that are congested around our way weren't congested a couple of years ago, until they introduced more un-neccessary traffic lights, lower speed limits, build outs in roads to hinder free flow etc., etc, etc.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

I don't know the location I'm afraid, and I'm not a Engineer. Even so I can't believe it is just to spite motorists. These things have to be justified one way or another. Maybe try and contact the local Highway Authroity and ask them?

That bus stop in Stockport isn't just spiteful, it has to be bordering on dangerous and illegal, putting it right on a junction like that. Did the person who dreamt that up ever have a driving licence?

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

As stated earlier, it is all part of their "roads plan".... get people out of cars...i.e, make them too pi@@ed off to drive.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Nope, you can't build yourself out of congestion, it doesn't work.

Besides, where the real congestion is you can't build more roads, i.e. urban areas.



Yep, the railway network is operating at capacity in a lot of places too.

Why not use the existing space more efficiently and have less of a need to use the road network?



The engineering you refer to is to aid pedestrians. Not to spite motorists. If it reduces capacity, but allows more people to walk, so be it.




Nope, it's to make walking easier.

Well if that's the case how do you explain 12foot wide pavements where there are maybe two pedestrians in half an hour and crossing refuges when there is nothing on the other side of the road to cross to and even if you wanted to cross you would have to then climb over an armco barrier....that' to make it easier for pedestrians is it...or maybe just to make it awkward for drivers.....I know which one I put my money on!

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.

Another good example is the (very busy) A35 into Lyndhurst: the bus stops previously had laybys; rather than fill these in, they've simply built large traffic islands that force the traffic flow into the layby, but also actually filled the layby in from the pavement side. I needn't add that this means that when there is a bus there, you can't pass it. You might be able to squeeze past, but the extra narrowing from the kerb side prevents this.

Still, got to get people out of their cars, as transport is apparently a zero-sum game: one mode can only benefit if another suffers.

As alluded to above, this doesn't seem to apply to other modes of transport:

"The railways are full, we need to persuade people to stop using them"

"The airports are full, if only we could build another runway..."

Yes, I drive around all day long and have yet to see many road "improvements" that actually help pedestrians or drivers. They all seem to have one thing in common and that's to slow traffic down.

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My views do not represent Safespeed but those of a driver who has driven for 39 yrs, in all conditions, at all times of the day & night on every type of road and covered well over a million miles, so knows a bit about what makes for safety on the road,what is really dangerous and needs to be observed when driving and quite frankly, the speedo is way down on my list of things to observe to negotiate Britain's roads safely, but I don't expect some fool who sits behind a desk all day to appreciate that.