Safe Speed Forums

I recieved in the post today 25/3/06 a notice of intended prosecution, the letter was dated the 24/3/06 so full marks for it getting here quickly.

thge problem is that it says the offence was commited on the 5/11/05 somewhat out side the 14 days that i understand that you should be notified in

i was not stopped at the time and the letter does not state what device was used to generate the charge, e.g fixed site hand held etc.

The letter has come from Gwent police in south wales, do they have diffeent rules for the notification time?

also if they have taken too long to notify me what should my next course of action be.

many thanks

James

The 14 day rule applies to the first notice sent to the registered keeper. My first guess is that you are NOT the registered keeper. In which case it may still be a valid notice.

DON'T be in a hurry to send it back. You must be close to exceeding their six month summons deadline with the NIP delay and FPN delay to come.

These quuestions are best asked on the forums at Pepipoo: http://www.pepipoo.com

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

thanks for the reply was a bit unsure were to post,

think that i am the registered keeper as it is my own vehicle that was bought from new, as far as i know there is no other registered keeper of the vehicle or ever has been

james

That could be good news. Have you got the log book? If not it might be registered with a finance company.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

have got the log book but cant get to it as i broke my foot last week and it is with my accountant, if the vehicle has been registerd to the finance comapny am i then stuck if they recieved it within 14 days?

james

Going by the dates you have provided your speeding offence times out on 5th May. If you use your full 28 days to reply to their NIP that takes you to 22nd April. Let's say the 21st which is a Friday. They are on the ball so on that day they send you a conditional offer of fixed penalty which gives you 28 days to respond. Ignore it. By the time the offer expires on 19th May it is too late for them to raise a summons.

Of course, they could skip the COFP step and go straight to summons, but that would prevent the scammers getting your cash, so is unlikely unless your speed really was excessive.

Given the time that has elapsed since your offence you might want to request photos to help you identify the driver before you return the NIP. You could also include in your letter requesting photos that you understand that the NIP is time expired because it hasn't been served on you within 14 days and see what they say. If they have genuine grounds to get around the 14 day rule they'll probably tell you in their reply.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

have found out that i am definitely the only person the vehicle is registered to, speaking to rac legal on monday and have a copy of a letter to send highlighting the fact that the NIP was late

according to the letter i was doing 60 in a 50, dont know about you but i cant remember clearly what speed i was doing nearly four months ago.

thanks for your help

james

You have to ensure that you provide the driver details if they press the matter. There only needs to be an allegation of an offence for them to make a request to name a driver and if they can't get you for speeding it wouldn't be unusual for them to revert to a S172 charge just to teach you a lesson for actually having the cheek to know enough law to point out the late service of the NIP.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Careful! It might be that an earlier NIP was lost in the mail. Unfortunately (unbelieveably) for NIPS proof of dispatch is proof of service so there's a real chance that they would be able to convince a court that the original (lost) NIP was legally served.

The six months strategy is looking safe, so play it carefully.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

For james to disprove service he'd just have to take the stand and say under oath that he didn't receive it. The CPS would then have to prove that he did. How could they do that?

Of course, if the scammers really wanted to ensure service of NIPs they'd use Special or Recorded delivery, wouldn't they? It's not like they can't afford it.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

I'm afraid not. I don't know how it came about, but I am certain that proof of dispatch is deemed to be proof of service. I know it's unreasonable...

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I think this post may help.

http://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?sho ... l=rebuttal

The question to me seems to be "if they can ensure service by using recorded or special delivery, why don't they?" As long as Royal Mail continue to lose significant volumes of post it is not unreasonable to suggest that one of those might be a NIP.

How can you be prosecuted for failing to send an answer to a communication you haven't received, just because the person sending it can prove it was posted?

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

Fact is people have.

If the case can be strung out past the six month deadline then it's a certain win.



You need to make sure the details on the V5 are correct and were correct at the time of the offence. The SCP have a get-out clause if they cannot trace you for reasons outside their control. For instance if you moved house, or the vehicle had changed hands recently and the DVLA database was not up to date.

The 14 day rule has too many problems to be concentrating on that now. Timing the case out is a pretty good option and it has worked for other people. I would not mention the length of time which has elapsed since the alledged offence in case it makes them notice it is about to time out. Just use your 28 days, send back the NIP and wait them out.

If they do notice and you get a summons instead of a fixed penalty then would be the time to suddenly "discover" the 14 day rule.

ok if i wait out the 28 days, i fill out section 1 of the form? surely that means that i was driving at the time, i cant actually remember so why should i put something that i am unsure of.

james

That's true. Take the 28 days to do your homework and decide how to respond.

The double downside of NOT naming a driver is that a) they can then prosecute you for S172 (failing to identify the driver) and b) The date of the S172 offence is later - perhaps much later - than the date of the speeding offence and the 6 month time limit might be much further away.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I have a "Thank you" card on my mantle piece at this time because a neighbour was being threatened with court on failure to disclose.

I wrote a simple "for whom it may concern" letter to provide a personal account of difficulties we have had with mail delivery. We live on a fairly new site and have had a lot of problems with mail going missing and being delevered to the wrong address (usually a mix up over plot number and street address). This has worked and the case has (rightly IMO) being dropped.

It seems that someone does have their head screwed on at the South Wales Scammers at least (shame they don't put them in charge of reducing road casualities eh).

Cheers

Paul

Proof of posting as proof of delivery?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4860610.stm

Two postal workers in East Lothian have been suspended after thousands of letters and leaflets were discovered undelivered.
Royal Mail has launched an investigation into the "intentional delay" of 40,000 pieces of mail.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

It is an offence to put the wrong details on your response. If you don't know who was driving ask to see the pics.

_________________
Less Kodak, more Kojak.
In times of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.