Safe Speed Forums

First up what's the likely outcome? Clear, dry dual carriageway.

Second I plan to plead guilty but with mitigation. Is mitigation likely to antagonise or will it help.

Should I go to court or plead by post?

How is the fine calculated by your means form - Is there a set formula?

Whoops 60 limit not 50

Sorry to have missed this earlier.

For an issue of this nature, I defer to Pepipoo. Have a look on www.pepipoo.com = they are more au fait with these issues than we are.

Agreed pepipoo would be the place to visit.

However, shop around for a decent lawyer to help argue your case and help "mitigate" the outcome. Based on experience (professional) - I think you are looking at up to 6 points and a nasty fine plus court costs and 5 years loading on insurance - so shop around for the best deal on this too as it becomes due.

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

By the sound of things I got caught on the same stretch of road near Buxton in my car yesterday. The police officer showed me the device they had used to catch me and it was a small black box with red LCD numbers a bit like a taxi meter which recorded my time between two white lines on the road and calculated my speed.

I was under 50mph and according to the device I was doing 93mph when I overtook. I overtook as we started going uphill as the car in front didn't have much acceleration.

Can anyone advise if this was a VASCAR device and whether they're approved for use? Something I've read seems to indicate that they're not.

First off I dreading a possible 12-month ban and secondly an extra 6 points would take me to 9 (first 3 were for talking on the mobile phone) so my insurance will go through the roof. Obviously I'm regretting what I did and driving like a saint now and thinking of doing a course before the court date to show willing. Any other advice anyone can offer or if the original poster of this (over a year ago) sees this and can advise what their outcome way that would be great.

Many thanks

Sorry, can you clarify?

Incidentally, I wonder what happened to the OP?

Sorry, what I meant was that I was doing under 50mph behind another car, pulled out to overtake and the police car behind recorded me overtaking at 93mph. I didn't really think I was going that fast but eyes were on the road not the speedo.

Am confused. Are you woodytvr .. and remember Wildy has a very sharp memory. She recalls the same post on PH as "woodytvr made" I trust that memory of hers completely - because I have known her from her from her being just 4 days old.

Look . we do not record 93 mph like that. Most of us are not "out to slap the public/treat as enemy to distrust" . I (and my team mates up here) rely on the public to tell me their fears . pass on their intelligence .. and I and most of my colleagues respect them as kindred spirits who want a fair minded society.

I cannot say fairer to try to reassure here.

Listen .. be honest with yourself on this one. How long did you allegedly "blat"? Have you any mitigation.. undue and provable hardship?

Please get decent legal advice on this one. I can only advise such in fairness. as you are fully entitled to this if you are to " limit the damages."


I do not post to judge ... by the way. I always try to give decentish advice and help folk in need. But if you accelerated to that speed and the plod car's toys are fully calibrated and cerificated to be "accurate" - you need to establish how far behind the plod car was behind you to calculate "speed v distance travelled" by each. You need to justify your speed . show you can prove it. Talk to decent lawyer. I will hope I am not being rude nor unhelpful .. . but you do sound like you need careful and properly worded legal advice here Wish you well .. but fear you are looking at a short ban here.
.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Hi,
I'm not woodytvr. Just found the post and as the situation looked very similar to my own (similar stretch of road, similar amount over in the same speed limit) I reopened the thread as the OP didn't come back and give their outcome.

Thanks for your advice. I wasn't aware you could get such a thing as a short ban. Thought 12 months was the shortest. To be honest I've pretty much resigned myself to either a ban or 6 points and a large fine and maybe all three so just trying to limit damage.

Am curious about the accuracy of the device that clocked me doing the speed though. The office told me that the speed was recorded using the white marking down the middle of the road and if that's the case it seems like a very short distance over which to calculate an accurate distance/time=speed. I don't profess to be an expert though and don't know what's possible with technology now. Can anyone inform whether it was a VASCAR device and whether they're admissable in court? I read somewhere that the police have a lot of speed detection devices that aren't admissable.

Not sure what a "blat" is, sorry? So not sure how long I was alleged to do it for If I did hit 93mph I must have been doing it for a short amount of time when overtaking but the officer told me it was my "average speed" that they recorded.

In terms of mitigation, I need the car to get to work and sometimes use it to get to customer meetings. It's not a good climate to be losing a job at the moment.

It's ok did not find your post rude and it was helpful.

My old man got banned for just a month once for speeding (I think more than one offence rather than one big one?) which meant I had to chauffeur him round in his Escort Cosworth .

Under 50 mph and booked for an average 93 mph during an overtake. What have you got? Rocket assistance for accelerating?

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The only thing that should be prohibited is prohibition.

Depends on the mags. They can ban for a week upwards for speeding OTTs Tot up gets a 6 month slap though .

Our Inspector who forgot to inform the host area that time got a three month ban for his 120 mph "blat" Likewise a police trainer in the Highlands who had a "senior moment" when returning home after a day;s training at high speed. He seemed to think he was still "on the job" for some odd reason He also got a three month ban as I recall . which sort of dispells the myth that we police "get away with it" ..

There is no rule for us and another for the MOP. We are subject to the same rules and rightly so in my opinion.


Dangerous/drug/drink etc can land the driver with a lengthy ban of 12 months to several years even.




Most of our in-car toys including VASCAR are checked and callibrated regularly. You can ask for the certificate on an FOI or via lawyer if police. Bo sure about SCPs though




We usually go for the average along the one drive.. as speed will fluctuate, A "blat" would be a sustained high speed whereas a "blip" for a a minute or so to complete an overtake .. we can live and let live with





Cheers.. I try to be helpful. I may think or comment someone has been a bit "silly" - but I do not do the "offend" and I try not to be "holier than thou" .. I do not quote the "law is the law" stuff as that is hardly constructive when someone happens to be smarting from a NIP and they want to know where they stand .. good.. bad .. indifferent.

Basically - you are asking what to expect from the magistrates. You need a legal brief to help plead mitigation or damage limitation as regards length of any ban here. You cannot plead "not guilty" as you "done it"

Let us know what happens and please stick around this forum as perhaps we can collectively help motivate you do dust yourself down and learn a lot more about yourself and your driving.

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

That's what I was thinking, especially as he said he was going uphill when he did it.


Just out of curiosity IG, what would you call "sustained"?

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What makes you think I'm drunk officer, have I got a fat bird with me?

What device was it. It will be on the summons... then read this thread viewtopic.php?f=31&t=17432&p=198521&hilit=type#p198521

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

About three quarters mile at least to prolonged distance. A blip would be slightly over . maybe for half to three quarter mile at margin of 10%-ish only., Slight errors like these .. show a fluctuation in any case when we look at the average speed overall - and thus not in public interest to bother that much about it.

Sustained would be 10% + say 6 and upwards for a longer distance.


This would be where professional judgements (aka discretion as to verbal acid lecture or verbal acid lecture accompanied by NOIP etc... or even consider to DIS) come into play.

Now bicycle beckons.. and I am thinking of riding the distance .. to a watering hole for lunch..

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Just an update. I received the summons the other day (about 2 months after the incident). It says that the device used was a Police Pilot and that the check was not recorded on video which is weird because the photo I managed to find on the Internet of a Police Pilot device was a device with a video screen.

That does sound like a VASCAR based unit: a manually operated distance/time measuring device. These determine your average speed over the distance where the unit was activated, using time and distance measurements, but they suffer greatly from operator accuracy. The operator must correctly judge your position relative to landmarks as you pass them and activate a timer as you cross them, (and must do it well even if the differential speeds between you and them are significant), then remember those landmarks and accurately judge their own position and activate a distance measuring device when their own car passes over them so measuring the distance between those landmarks.

There is plenty of scope for error with these devices.
You should find out what gap there was between you; the greater the distance the greater the scope error - if you suddenly accelerated then there will be an issue with operator perspective.
You also need to find out what distance you were clocked over; the shorter the measured distance the more scope there is for error - and any other errors will be amplified. Given the claimed average speed, anything less than 100m is asking for trouble (100m yields only 2.4 seconds of measurement, so operator response time becomes significant). I don’t know if there are any official rules or guidelines for minimum (timed) distances.
I'm sure there are some great threads on PePiPoo which better describe the potential errors.

The “two white lines” you had earlier referred to, what exactly were they? Are they purpose made VASCAR landmarks?

I do find it odd there was no video, I thought use of video recorders were routine; only a video can demonstrate correct usage of the VASCAR system, which is critical considering the scope and impact of operator error.

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Views expressed are personal opinions and are not necessarily shared by the Safe Speed campaign

The device on the Notice to Defendant is a "Police Pilot" and recorded me over a distance of .259 miles (416.8 metres) between two VASCAR squares. I still don't know how accurate the device that I was measured using was but filed a plea of guilty by post a few weeks ago because I don't have the money to spend on an expensive lawyer and I know that any way you look at it I was over the speed limit. I've been sent a letter that I'm required in court tomorrow.

drivingbikeandcar

How did you get on ?
Sorry that I have come in late on this ....
There are some legal services that take on cases no win / no fee or on 'pro bono' etc ...

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Safe Speed for Intelligent Road Safety through proper research, experience & guidance.

As a foot note... 173kmh is 105 MPH. Had the officer got the device on the wrong settings???

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code