Safe Speed Forums

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Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!

so how many lessons had you taken prior to this ticket

About 7-8

You have trouble distinguishing between 7 & 8 like the scamerati

Hmm I think I agree.


Me too... In fact, why am I still here?


Ah.

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Andrew.

Could you give the location in N Wales

fatboytim

Ruthin.

Then they will re-issue with the correct date as it would be an admin typing error.


We have heard of NIPS being issued - accusing old Maestros and Rover 1Ks of travelling past at 460 mph before now






Indeed.



They start at 35 mph at 10% +2... so it's 2 mph over their tolerance


We don't have fixed cams here.. but we do use cams in the cars here. We have one van "doing the rounds" We have a fair tolerance margin. I am not saying what it is as I think I prefer folk to remain vigilant here. all the same. Let's just say - people complain that we are "'ere, there and everywhere"

But would our officers out there have pulled you and your Dad on that practice drive?

I certainly think so. It may not have resulted in anything more than a serious chat to educate you and your Dad at this early stage in your driving career - but it would have depended very much on what the officer in question actually saw and on his striclty professional judgement as to the standards observed


You see driving is a skill.. a very prescribed skill which has to meet certain well defined criteria before you even qualify to drive without supervision. At the point of qulification - you are still continuing to develop and perfect this skill - and it can never be taken for granted as we meet a new situation each time we drive.. sharing the roads as we do with different people each time. It is not a basic human right - but a privileged right which we earn in the same way as we earn that privileged right to follow our dream professions by passing the right exams at the required good pass level. You will be sitting your A Levels. To get to University .. you need A/B Grades - and one mark can be the cut off between each of those grades too.

It is the same thing then - with the cut off on Wales' tolererance margins. (Am no fan of cameras - I happen to think a pull by a police officer would have had more influence on your budding career of driving a car - and may have sete you on the right road for your life at this stage )

I know you are angry about this. But learn from it and work on developing your COAST skills. (Do a search on this forum - I put the definition on here in the past ) Read the "when did you pass your test" thread and take a stroll through the "Improve Your Driving " section too. Lots of helpful stuff there and if you register to Pistonheads - there is also a good "Advanced Driving" section there - which offers some excellent discussions on good practice




We take assault and muggings seriously here.


Did your school take any action against the school bully who attacked you?


Reet will correct me if I'm wrong - but I thought schools had to have some anti-bullying strategy by statute now?

Go have a word with the head teacher over this assault if you have not already done so - and if you did report it.. check up on progress as to how they are dealing with this and propose to prevent in future.




Ah... you are just getting your anger off your chest

All politicians have one goal... in any country.

It's called "Looking After Number One"

I am sure I would run things better.. but not everyone would like the way I do so..




You had 7 - possibly 8 lessons. :scratchin: About two lessons per week and you are now practising what you have learned to date.... and you have just had one very hard lesson.


As said .. just learn from this mistake now. Lots of drivers with several years experience have been copped by these cameras - so this does not reflect that badly on you.


For the present - your parents will be footing any loading on the premium of the family car they have nominated you to use on their policy. Shop around at renewal. So many have three points these days .. that insurers no longer appear to penalise as punitively as they once did .. even for youngsters.

But continue to learn.. and once you pass your test - you can help yourself by doing the Pass Plus and then after a year of building up some experience .. look at the IAM... and you never do know enough - you are always learning and developing your skills in every profession you take up

That's the advice I give my own children ..

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Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Thanks for taking the time to reply, but the only way I am going to pay a fine is if it demanded in court.

I will make it as hard as possible for these traffic police - and use up as much of their time and resources as possible.

If I do lose, then I'm not going to bother continuing learning to drive. Not if this is going to happen all the time. Especially when that money is going to be used to give to immigrants and single mums younger than me, a nice new home.

Not to mention the fact that we have the highest fuel taxes in the world.


The BNP will be recieveing a vote off me, thats for sure.

If you say that at the time of the alledged offence you were being supervised by a qualified driver, then this person is guilty of either permitting excess speed if guilty knowledge,or aid and abet as they are responsible for you whilst driving.
If you are guilty of this offence irrespective of there being an admin error on the date then get it over and done with instead of prolonging the agony, after all if you dont bring the mistake to there attention then they cant rectify it or resind it if it is a genuine mistake which shows it wasnt you.
To go to court on the the basis of the wrong date only to find that this is not a defence as it is your duty to resolve it prior to this and if you speak to a solicitor either via appointment prior to court date or the duty on the day,he will only tell you the same advice when it is identified.
Stephen

I also have plans to request a copy of both sides of the calibration certficate, details of the camera that alleged to have caught me speeding ( make, model, serial number etc) . I will also, under the freedo of information act, be requesting details of the officers training. - Hopfully this is a full document that will waste their time and resources.

After doing so, when I recieve the informaton, I will be contacing the manufactuer (SP) and inquire about possible mistakes that can be made.


Not to mention the fact that I'll be taking photogragphs of the speed signs and the lighting etc. As well as making my own caluculations of what speed I was going via the inforation given to me by the police.

I think that there are enough loopholes in this to get me off the hook.

I WILL NOT BACK DOWN.


Any information not given to me will be used against the police in court.

Exactly. Don't give them gifts. They stuff up, they lose. Their fault.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Stop reading the Daily Hate Mail, and suddenly the country seems much nicer. If you want to emigrate, bugger off quickly and preferably quietly.

I don't believe you. You imply - but don't confirm - that in less than 5 days the SCP have issued a NIP, your mum has returned it saying you were the driver, and they have issued the NIP to you. So that is 3 separate postal communications. One of which will have been the day after the bank holiday.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Your imagination has got the better of you. We're talking about his mum's NIP. Just one communication. Nowhere here does anything suggest responses and subsequent NIPs.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Oops. Apologies to the OP, skimmed over this bit:


The first part still stands though, life viewed through the trash media seems a lot worse than it really is.

[edit]
Stephen, I sort of take from your post that a simple clerical error such as the wrong date should not be a reason for the prosecution to fail (I'm paraphrasing vastly, correct me if I am wrong) but I disagree. Getting something like a date wrong may be only a minor error but it smacks of poor internal governance and controls. The camera partnerships need to be, and show themselves to be, above reproach for adherence to both the spirit and the letter of the law. Don't get me wrong, I support speed enforcement and I long for the day when Mr. Loophole Freeman goes out of business, and all NIP's issued are unarguable, but allowing one clerical error as acceptable allows the rot to start. IMVHO.

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COAST Not just somewhere to keep a beach.

A young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the helpless, the powerless, in a world of criminals who operate above the law.

Stephen's right - I forgot about the supervisor getting into bother

Blimey - for a 17 year old .. you seem to know a fair bit

But I think you will get a rude awakening in the courts to be honest. I think - for all the negative publicity - the Welsh mob are very well trained up - whether or not we agree with a positioning within yards of a lolly change We are a lot further up .. by the way.. and I think you would be wilt if faced with our "acid" to be honest.

Now I am sorry you feel as you do. But perhaps if you give up driving now given your attitude .. we may be spared the horrid task of scraping up your remains from the tarmac.


We have young members on this boards .. mike F and mike 1998 are truly comendable young drivers and I salute them. They will make it.. live.. develop .. become as expert as their ability allows .. and remain safe


WHY?

Because of their mature and caring approaches. Sure .they have made me cringe a bit in the past.. but they are prepared to learn and in this - they prove to me that we can trust a good number of our kids on the whole.

But.. I mean no disrespect or hurt.. but .. you just don't give me that same vibe.

Look.. I know you are resentful and very upset.

I can only suggest you meet this head on .. with a cool head and just learn from a hard knock.


I can appreciate that perhaps... had an officer spoken to you and you dad .. you may have felt a lot differently and even been motivated to improve to your best ability.


But .. I would just chalk to bad experience.. grit teeth and swear that .. by God.. you will never be copped again.. by learning to COAST your drives .. doing Pass Plus and IAM and just striving all the time to improve your skills - as a part or your pride and self -respect

But I am nice and astute enough to appreciate blind teenage anger when I see it - as I am a father as well as a police officer and I know you are really blowing off a young angry steam here.

Done it.. got the T-shirt.

Seen it - got the T shirt

Experienced my kids' various tantrums over the years .. got the T shirt.


But I would never ever want any police officer to get the T shirt of telling your parents some awful news.

You are in the driving seat here and you can either take it on the chin and accept you might have been speeding and your Dad did not notice... and just accept the fine and points. As said .. insurance companies these days do not always load up premiums and for a young kid.. the extra charge would not be that significant to your parents perhaps. I know .. I pay for my own kids' cars

SO shop around.


Do not risk a stain on your character by fibbling to the courts. This could seriously undermine what couild be a promising future for you.

Be very careful in your decisions.. they will affect you for a long time.

I am not necessarily posting to you as a police officer .. but as a caring parent with kids of his own of your age.

As a police officer of some decency in rank.. I have to say that police are very professionally trained indeed.. and courts usually accept the professional judgement.. and I have to say .. they would take the opinion of a time served and trained before the word of a 17 year of one month's driving experience.


I am so sorry. I do not mean that to sound as harsh as it does .. but I cannot sugar coat all the time.

As said.. I know you are bitterly angry and I am not helping you over this by voicing a stark reality of life.


I can only hope that once you calm down a bit.. you will read mine and Stephen's replies to you a bit more calmly and know that we are trying to help you get a driving licence and have a clean one for life when you reach age 21 as sadly the points stay on record for 4 years and you have to declare to insurers for 5 years.


I would choose Oxbridge if I were you Drive in the vacations and bike the rest of the time

_________________
Take with a chuckle or a grain of salt
Drive without COAST and it's all your own fault!

A SMILE is a curve that sets everything straight (P Diller).

A Smiley Per post
FINES USfor our COAST!

Approach love and cooking with reckless abandon - but driving with a smile and a COAST calm mind.

Thanks very much for taking the time to reply again.

Your post made a lot of sense.



I am in a very happier mood today, because you wouldn't belive this, it wasn't MY ticket!

My dad requested the photo's, only to see my mum being caught doing 36 in a 30. - Not me.

So the date was correct, however, the reason why I claimed that it definately wasnt my mum was because she'd never been to Ruthin on that day.

But it gets better, the photo's are in a totally different location, meaning that they've got the location wrong this time!

Ahhh, I love the police.



Funnily enough, my dad works in the police (also high up ), which is why he got the photos quickly, and it has been explained that the NIP is almost certainly void.


So it looks like a happy ending. No ticket for me, no ticket for my mum.


I hope that I wont have to come in here again, but knowing N.W police, it wont be long.


Thanks again everyone for your replies, appoligies for my behavoir.

And remember one thing....


SLOW DOWN.





edit: just to say, that I'd consder myself a safe driver, and certainly don't fit into the boy-racer catagory, which is what made me so mad that I thought I'd got a speeding ticket. I always watch my speed - although it's not easy when you have about 10 cars up your backside even though your keeping to the speed limit. Anyway, thanks again.

Isn't "inconsiderate driving" a worse offence than "exceeding random number"?

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Andrew.

You have expressed gratitude to us for helping you (although, thanks to recent door mat fodder, you no longer need it on this issue.

Could I ask a reciprocal favour? Take a little time out to read some of the other stuff on this website. In particular the main website - just dabble in there. Forget (for the moment) your and our hatred of cameras; concentrate on the safety and driving aspects.

What division of the police is your father in? I'm not talking geography, I mean what branch of the service (traffinc, forensics, CID...) It would be interesting to hear his take on this site. Perhaps he or you (or both) may consider joining or becoming a p[aid-up member in due course? Help is a two-way thing, although the younger generation I admit find it a struggle to realise that sometimes.

Yes, I agree. 100%


Sorry, I meant that I dont wish to visit the site in terms of recieving a ticket again. Probably not the best of words on my behalf.

I would like to say that I am fully behind this site as fellow forum members have given me tons of useful advice, ideas, etc, . Thank You very much. I would also have no hesitation in reffering people to this website whenever I may come accross the issue of speed.

As for the question, I would say that the information is confidential. But I would say, that he is somewhere in between, not against - not for.

Thanks again everyone.