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PostPosted: Sun Feb 23, 2014 02:15 
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Location: Yorkshire
Apparently passed a 30mph sign allegedly at 41 on a dark overcast wet afternoon recently.

This would have been the location but was completely distracted by the zig-zags on the wet surface.

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beefordsigns.jpg
beefordsigns.jpg [ 19.66 KiB | Viewed 5640 times ]


I cannot find reference to them in the highway code so wonder if they are they official. It was also very dark as confirmed by the Redflexlasrecam photo they sent me yet the speed signs would not have been illuminated. Feel somewhat aggrieved!

Are those zig-zags official or an unofficial distraction? Thanks.

I do reckon ten road signs/markings in one go is totally OTT, especially if the significant ones become invisible because of this and in overcast conditions easy to miss when not illuminated. The approach to these signs is from NSL so first one sees SLOW. I was driving at 40 so thought I was already going slow! Then the two sets of backgammon zigzags that threw me wondering what they are, the colour change in the surface, and some other sign afterwards that could not be made out (it supposedly says 30 in a squashed circle rather than the usual oval.) Then the two village name signs, oh, and I nearly forgot, the two 30 roundels! It's just information overload.

The camera van was parked on the opposite side of the carriageway somewhere near the junction entrances visible in the photo just ahead on the right. To top it all they fired a flash gun in my face!


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 06:14 
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Sorry, I'm having trouble seeing how a few badly worn and faded road markings distracted you from the dirty great dayglo backed speed limit signs.

Not that it matters, arguing over some marks on the road (official or otherwise) isn't going to get you anywhere.

I looked the location up on google maps and those signs are visible from at least half a mile away, far earlier than you could possibly have noticed the road markings. If you are trying to build a defence then you will need to do a lot better.

First thing is to check the speed limit has been set legally. It looks like the kind of spot where the limit may have been lowered recently. If it previously had streetlights and a higher limit then the council may not have applied for the reduction properly (in some cases they have been known to just change the signs, which is not enough to make it legally enforceable).


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:35 
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Thanks for your helpful reply.

I will say the weather that afternoon was heavily overcast so the 30mph signs weren't anything like as obvious as they were on the sunny day the Google car passed through, and they weren't lit. Thee photo I was sent makes it look light night time, yet the signs would not have been illuminated. The signs have also suffered wear in the meantime.

Also if interest is that the 'elongated roundel' painted on the road does not comply with diagram 1065 of TSRGD
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Roundel.jpg [10.99 KiB]
Not downloaded yet


which should be:
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diagram1065.gif
diagram1065.gif [ 58.93 KiB | Viewed 5596 times ]


The London Gazette has reference to the introduction of a 40mph limit for this section for road. I can find nothing about lowering it further to 30mph. does this suggest that it might not have been set legally?

Also I do not believe there are any repeater signs along that section which I think are required.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 21:35 
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Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
I don't know if it's particularly relevant, but two things look odd to me
1) are those lights on the 30 signs . I seem to remember there's something odd about sign lighting.
2) Where do the street lamps start . ( as in if they start after the limit, is the limit legal ?)

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 26, 2014 22:25 
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Thanks. yes, they are lights attached to the 30 signs but they weren't illuminated at the time (quarter to 4 in the afternoon but it was very overcast so signs were mis-sable.)
The street lights start just before the 30 signs. Here's a link to the limit start point on Street view (when it was photographed in Oct 2008 - since then the signs are getting worn but I do not have a current photograph.)
https://maps.google.co.uk/maps?q=beeford&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&channel=np&ie=UTF-8&ei=hlYOU8L4BcarhQe86IGgBQ&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ

I could also do with checking if all the access point signs are in order.
Also if the traffic order is valid. I can only find a London Gazette notice for when the limit was reduced to 40mph in 1982. Nothing since. I was photographed at apparently 41mph ! Whether that was right or not I have no idea but it wasn't the weather/conditions for rushing. 40mph would look to be the true safe speed limit for that road as per the London Gazette notice.

What seems wrong is that I did drive through the village at 30mph once I realised it was a restricted road, I had been expecting to see 40mph repeaters to confirm.

Have found some stats for Beeford:

SiteName - A165/ Beeford
Effect of Enforcement on KSI Casualties - -12.18%
Effect of Enforcement on Injury Collisions - -40%
Baseline Average Speed (MPH) - 38
Average Speed Since Enforcement - 29
Baseline 85th percentile Speed - 47
85th percentile Speed Since Enforcement - 33
Baseline Percentage over Speed Limit - 41
Percentage over Speed Limit Since Enforcement - 25
Baseline Average Traffic Flow - 8253
Average Traffic Flow Since Enforcement - 8618

I have to say that if 25% of traffic is over the limit since enforcement, there is something wrong with the limit or the signage.
While I understand what they might mean by '85th percentile Speed Since Enforcement', that isn't the 85th percentile for that road which they say is 47mph!


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