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 Post subject: RoadPeace correction
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 17:06 
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Readers should know that any reference to RoadPeace Northwest in this forum has been done without permission by the RoadPeace Northwest coordinator and the RoadPeace head office. Nor does it reflect their views.

RoadPeace Northwest is one of the local groups of RoadPeace, the national charity for road traffic victims, and thereby follows RoadPeace policy. RoadPeace has campaigned for improved traffic law enforcement, including the use of safety cameras, since it was established in 1992. As the founder’s son was killed by a red light violator, we are very aware of the benefits of safety cameras.

Some of the camera related issues RoadPeace has campaigned for include:

1. Safety cameras to be used before death or injury has occurred.
2. Safety cameras not to be required to be conspicuous, as this will limit their ‘halo’ effect.
3. All safety measures to be rigorously evaluated, and not just cameras. We believe there is much better evidence for safety cameras than many other safety measures, including speed awareness and driver improvement courses.
4. Fine revenue to be invested in rehabilitation and support services for road traffic victims.

We trust this clarifies RoadPeace's position.


Brigitte Chaudhry
RoadPeace Founder and President


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 17:41 
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Before we continue - and I'd very much like to continue - is this a 'statement' or the start of a dialogue?

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Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 18:39 
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Paul,

I would think that as the post was made by someone else on behalf of the signatory then it is a statement.

Of course, if Roadpeace would like to nominate an officially approved spokesperson ...

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 21:28 
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So, sorry, who is "belladonna" relative to you?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 23:04 
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A shame really... "Belladonna", who seemed to be very reasonable, open-minded and willing to debate, has, by the look of it, been "stomped" by the dogmatic, closed-minded and ignorant "Management".

To the detriment of all concerned IMHO.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 10:48 
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Firstly I would like to speak up on my own behalf and say that inspite of the fact that the North West group decided to 'go it alone' and produce their own website, I left this forum as it was, because I wanted to allow people to place their own points of view, should they decide to do so, without bias opinions. I would like to think we still live in some kind of 'Free World'. Clearly Safespeed are able to do this, unlike RoadPeace.
So, now seems the time to tell you that I decided to step down from RoadPeace a couple of months ago.
I have spent many months traveling the country with craft Fairs promoting RoadPeace and fundraising, BUT, have been pulled in by restrictions about what I can say and do, and feel that I am not able to say how I really see things, and therefore help people.
There are several reasons, but mostly it is because I believe that anyone that has contact with famalies that are going through a trauma such as road death, should firstly have the emotional welfare at the front.
I am a fully qualified energy healer and spend much of my time with people who are going through vaious degrees of P.T.S.S., and see all the time how keeping in the 'victim' mode does not help their situation in any way. RoadPeace use the word victim far too much, and stay in the negative side of grief.
Road death, like any other happens. Yes, it is traumatic, I know, I have been there, BUT, we have to deal with the families immdiate needs first, and not the needs of campagning and fighting back. Which if they feel the need, can be done at a later date.
We must also, if part of a group, be completely unbias when giving advice. I did not see this happening, so have 'pulled out'.
I am sorry if this has offended anyone, and I feel sad that as a society some of us are unable to listen to EVERYONES point of view.
I shall continue to support Safespeed. I feel that Paul, and many members in this group strive to move forward into a realistic future, and help other members when it is needed.

Belladonna

'There are many who will think me a 'nut' for my views, my reply is;
Today's mighty oak is just yesterday's nut that held its ground'.


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 11:07 
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pogo wrote:
A shame really... "Belladonna", who seemed to be very reasonable, open-minded and willing to debate, has, by the look of it, been "stomped" by the dogmatic, closed-minded and ignorant "Management".

To the detriment of all concerned IMHO.


Thankyou.................I to like to think that I appear this way..............alas, others do not always appreciate my open.minded and willing to debate, attitude.
Even so, I have been 'in' the trauma, 'through' the hell..............and out the other side. Others are not always lucky enough to have the guides to show them the way.
Blessings
Belladonna

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'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 21:36 
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Like belladonna - all on this site know that the Swiss family went down a big black hole once upon a time.

My cousin was killed - in my opinion und I will be blunt that ist highly subjective as this was ONE OF OURS!

He was in his mid 30s at the time of his death. In his prime of life.. He had children - was making his mark professionallly - steeering himself upwards .. climbing that tough ladder to the top of any profession.

He had young children. A nice wife.. home.

He had a life worth living .

He died.

A person driving a lorry struck his car.

a defective lorry whose operator clearly was not bothered with trifles such as servicing a vehicle


The driver lost control. He was in heavy slow moving traffic on a UK motorway. One of the illegal tyres blew. The brakes failed.

He went through the central reserve.

He hit oncoming traffic. My cousin's car took the first hard impact ...He died instantly. He did not suffer und for this our family thanked their God.

Later - Mary formed Brake. Her mother died this way. She was campaigning like ourselves to tighten up legislation und standard of car repairs. We joined up as a family group.

We also had another reason ME

I was driving along to work one day.. mionding my own business. I came to a traffic wave jam. I pull up in midddle lane. Lorries in L1 .. und middle lane looked like it would be crawling a little more smoothly up the gradient. It was unusually clear behind me. Empty in all 3 lanes. A traffic officer was parked in the hard shoulder. His lights were warning traffic of this congestion snarl up - motorway merges und a slip road junction possibly root cause of all this - plus HGVs on a gradient.


I stop - tarmac und tyres per usual. I make another check glance in mirror.. I see.. i coming at me . It was not reducing any speed .. it seem to be increasing. I glance around.. no escaping this one. I do not know why but I grabbed everything to hand und just adopted a crash position .. und prayed.

The man who hit my car had been taken ill behind the wheel of his car. He was dying slowly maybe before he kissed his wife on way out that morning as he had complained of feeling unwell.

We also campaigned to try to make all persons managers of selves und to accept that if they not feel well - really not well - then perhaps they should phone in und take day off to sort out .. see doctor.. whatever.

We distance selves from Brake .. in first few years of this century..

Pre-occupation with Speed Cams.. above all other issues. A very subjective point of view und one fuelled to some extent by "personal".

Like belladonna - we look beyond .. to wider world und larger picture. We see danger of single policy early on... und its effects on normal policing as people are literally "sold a poop" on this.

Thing came to head when this family were asked to front a campaign against speed - using our injuries to show how it "kills"

This was not true ..as what happened - what caused us great trauma und we still getting over it in reality - was not a speed issue.

We are pro driver training.. pro- a systematic safety approach. Hence the desire to bring COAST into driver psyche.

We do not see spede camera as solving anything.

They do not prevent any accident. People just slow down for them und speed up to dangerous level again afterward.

They do not cop insane drivers. They are useless at detecting a defective vehicle or a drunken/ drugged/ tired or ill driver.

Und with a drugged driver - how do you reason. They do not even think they are incompetent in that state - yet you hero DICK wants to legalise these. He only wants to make his burglray detection rate reflect "better"

Please cease deceiving yourselves.

Fir the internet troll - about the only person who loses a "beloved" seeking "legalisation". :roll: Given the number of user names and insane ramblings - I really believe - NOT! Some "support" you are for Brigitte and Mary.. :roll: They do actually require "sense" und not insanity ..

By the way - from BRAKE und RoadPeace websites .. not exactly in favour of drugs prescribed or downright illegal - anyway... :roll:

They need your insanity like they need hole in head to be honest.

Insurance revenues funds rehab for most part.

As for "hiding these scams"

If you want people to slow down - then they have to see them. What ist point of hiding them. Whole point of their being visible at black spot ist to show danger element to others = But then road side flowers have same effect - don't they?


Und as for your comment about Speed Awares.. yes we like these - COAST get taught. But they should be aimed at the RIGHT audience when all ist said und done und not the middle aged women und old geezers who end up getting invited over a 4 mph blip.

As for fine money helping victims. Insurance policies alreadymore than pay out a fair whack for this.. [i] und despite a battle to get justice from an insurance company which supports these charities .. (double standards und I fear a fest of :banghead: :hissyfit: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :furious: as I cannot find any word to fully describe the anger I feel to this so-called "insurance company" who tried to tell me that their client probably died before he hit me und he was this not insured by them ... I still got a very reasonable pay out after the courst sorted it once und for all.

I edit cos I miss something in typing.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


Last edited by WildCat on Tue Apr 25, 2006 23:03, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 22:08 
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belladonna wrote:
pogo wrote:
A shame really... "Belladonna", who seemed to be very reasonable, open-minded and willing to debate, has, by the look of it, been "stomped" by the dogmatic, closed-minded and ignorant "Management".

To the detriment of all concerned IMHO.


Thankyou.................I to like to think that I appear this way..............alas, others do not always appreciate my open.minded and willing to debate, attitude.
Even so, I have been 'in' the trauma, 'through' the hell..............and out the other side. Others are not always lucky enough to have the guides to show them the way.
Blessings
Belladonna


Und belladonna .. I hope you continue to work towards safety on our roads. We do need voices of reason as opposed to the blinkered who bully their way und refuse to see another issue.

Ist a danger to let personal grief blur vision und ist exactly what Mary und Brigitte are doing. They need to step outside of this grief und look way beyond it, to let go und just see the wider issues which bring about true safety standards on the roads

This ist not about speed. Ist about continuous teaching. Making people think und evaluate their driving'riding/cycling/horsey skills as a constant. Making them think COAST .. encouraging with carrot to improve skills - using a force without them feeling this force or sense of threat und intimidation - which in turn create resentment und the opposite of what we seek to achieve. Jumping a red light.. if you drive to COAST - you see properly. Though my sister-in-law.. she take photos of the site where the child in Ted's thread died .. she send to us. We think of placing on this thread. She has photo of several rounds of red light change on 60 mph dual. They set off from lights at junctions beyond. They are soon at this crossing which due to some daft road engineering following a housing development on what had been protected Green Belt land unc cause chaos as 800 tiny houses each have at least 2 cars.. und it now take a lot longer to go anywhere in peak time here as result.

Sister-in-law's photos show traffic setting off from A575 junction und after a most gentle curve in the A580 East Lancs - they are on this juntion which ist a lot wider as result of the housing development und subject to more pedestrian activity as result. Worryingly looking at her bracketing of these shots und I think we will have to post them up if we can work out how to do so - or ask J to mail to Paul directly so that he can assess und judge.. but she shows more than once how cars are increasing speed und not able to stop due to the change from green- amber -red.

Ist when she stand there und just observe that she see just how this junction would benefit from a pelican/toucan per the inquest. She ist another IAM/RoSPA Golden girl .. she know what she talk about.

In this family - we take pride in doing whatever we do to best of ability - we always looking to improve as well.

This family look at wider issues -like belladonna. We can still enjoy our driving und we do so very - very safely. Und the BiB in the family do their work fair und square as well - objectively, professionally .. as it should be.

People like you, bella, und I think my family .. I think we have emerged on the other side of this black hole all the stronger und balanced despite the deep hurt of it all. We know what it mean. People like the internet troll - for example - do not.

For record - I made point of visiting your fund raising stalls und buying your stuff. I was one of the many foreign ladies you may have seen und just thought "tourist! " :wink:

I think you can continue good works und helping without this bunch of inward lookers who wish to wallow in self pity und revenge instead of looking beyond this black abyss.

Ist pity . ist more rewarding to move to the light.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


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 Post subject: Re: RoadPeace correction
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 22:53 
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Amy Aeron-Thomas wrote:
Readers should know that any reference to RoadPeace Northwest in this forum has been done without permission by the RoadPeace Northwest coordinator and the RoadPeace head office. Nor does it reflect their views.
<snipped>
We trust this clarifies RoadPeace's position.


Brigitte Chaudhry
RoadPeace Founder and President

This is a bit misleading, is it not? You appear to be suggesting that no-one from RoadPeace Northwest was involved and this forum was set up without regard to RoadPeace Northwest's aims or views.

What position did Belladonna hold before she stood down? Was she RoadPeace's representative or not? IIRC, she was the vice chairperson for RoadPeace Lancashire.

If RPNW has had a change of leadership and/or opinion that's somewhat different to your statement, which suggests that your organisation wasn't involved in creating this section of the forum at all. :?

If you wish to distance yourself from the actions of a former member that's your prerogative, but you should at least do so honestly, instead of inferring that RPNW's involvement here is a work of fiction.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 23:09 
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The lady promoted und headed number of events. A genuine person.

I can only think the OP was made because the person in question knows as well as Sir John Stevens, Paul Garvin und a number of seriously well informed TOP cops that the pre-occupation with speed und speed cams ist creating a lowering of road user standard across board.

Thus an attack on common sense - yet again. :roll:

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Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 23:19 
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I didn't doubt it for a second, Wildcat :) .

What I object to is the OP suggesting that RoadPeace were not connected with and did not agree to the setting up of this forum. That is clearly not the case as a senior member of RPNW was instrumental in its creation.

A simple "we've changed our (management) minds and don't like you any more" would have been more accurate.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 07:46 
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Quote:
3. All safety measures to be rigorously evaluated, and not just cameras. We believe there is much better evidence for safety cameras than many other safety measures, including speed awareness and driver improvement course


This sentence in particular seem to show the short sightedness of this organisation.

All motoring groups UND the POLICE all confirm that the DIS/Aware courses und any training undertaken by drivers all help.

There ist a poster on PH. He does not post to this site - but ist rather prolific on the other site.. He appears to be someone who trains drivers - he seem to agree about the training aspect even though he appear to like the cameras....

Lancs und all those offering these courses claim a success rate.. those invited have never been pinged or appear to have been involved in crash (either before or after) their course - but they reckon they have started model for drivers to constantly improve via the COAST model they demonstrate in action on such courses.

This ist the sort of driving which would perhaps make a lady think twice about turning around to talk or admonish child in back passenger seat und striking a cyclist at the time.

(Lady wrote a letter to a magazine some time ago - condemning all improvement courses. )

She ist deputy chairman of this bunch

Her letter was of the emotive stuff .. explaining to a child why Daddy ist not coming home.

We had to explain to Ferdl's children who have grown up balanced und normal - without hating other people who never caused any accident,.

There ist a very clear danger in groups such as this one who base their arguments on very real emotion trying to mix this deep hurt with politics which affect the rest of the population. Most do not drive carelessly und most do drive carefully - responsibly. If it was as she say - more und worse would be happening.

Ist grief talking.. ist not the answer to blame rest of society for wrong one person did.

Statistically und this ist also admitted by the police driver trainer on PH - the ones causing most of these tragedies are those not even legal to be on the road.

- Like CJ! (Illegal to drive.. not legally here either...)

- Like Abigail (another as above.. he get 18 months as well)

- Like the Cambridge student who died leaving Christmas Mass two years ago. (another similar to one who kill CJ)

- Like the person who mowed down a aa 9 year old in Bolton last autumn.
(legally here - not legal to drive)


- Like the person who mowed down Laura Entwistle as she cross road on way home from a cleaning job in Bolton. (never been caught - chief suspects gang of unlicenced chav who nick cars for kicks)


- Like the Howarths on this planet .. who carry on driving despite the jail terms und the bans.. und each time copped by a real :bib: doing a real job.

Because they know he does this.. where he ist likely to be seen... so they use intelligence to nab him.

All illegal. Alll no licence.. no insurance in poxy unregistered und downright dangerous and unroadworthy vehicles.

- Or in a stolen car.

Then work out just how far relying und insisting on a speed camera as the sole und only solution above all others actually gets us!

This sort of Road goes to nowhere und with this sort of policy - ist no PEACE for ANYONE!

Encouraging a good driver attitude via encouraging some kind of training und help for those who break a traffic rule or do something dumb like turn around to chastise a child instead of ignoring und stopping as soon as safe to do so ist sort of thing which need training.

Und by the way - in her selfish emotion Rita has never ever considered how the mother of the two year old may feel because she turned her eye off road because of a screaming infant instead of calmly increasing volume of Classic FM slightly und making for neares lay-by. She will be blaming herself forever. Her life sentence ist probably just as emotional in guilt.

But these people never consider the other side of those involve in trauma do they?

Widow of man who hit me tried to kill herself because she felt she should have stopped him that day when he felt ill.

Driver who hit Ferdl also tried to killl himself und he has nevr driven again - he killed one und injured - very seriously injured 5 others. They are no walking wounded but one ist "living dead" still. One person has no memory of anything before crash und can only remember things for a day or so. He felt so bad apparently that he tried to take his life.

Ist better to try to view without emotional baggage ..und leave the personal out when screaming about how much they like these cameras - because I know one Brake member who change mind about this after a low speed ping.

Belladonna was the right kind of person for her role. She, like us, more than aware of the hell und trauma - yet balanced enough to look objectively.

I know which outlook I prefer.

Besides - we all know what happen.

Steve called it manipulation. Slowing for camera und speeding up again.

But no one dies as a result.. so speed ist not the cause of any accident.

Failure to COAST.. Observe/Anticipate/Plan ...that causes the accident! Und the error can be caused by one (not necessarily always the person with the wheels) or all of those involved as well.

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:12 
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Wildcat - you represent the voice of reason :)

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 Post subject: Re: RoadPeace correction
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 10:59 
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MrsMiggins wrote:
Amy Aeron-Thomas wrote:
Readers should know that any reference to RoadPeace Northwest in this forum has been done without permission by the RoadPeace Northwest coordinator and the RoadPeace head office. Nor does it reflect their views.
<snipped>
We trust this clarifies RoadPeace's position.


Brigitte Chaudhry
RoadPeace Founder and President

This is a bit misleading, is it not? You appear to be suggesting that no-one from RoadPeace Northwest was involved and this forum was set up without regard to RoadPeace Northwest's aims or views.

What position did Belladonna hold before she stood down? Was she RoadPeace's representative or not? IIRC, she was the vice chairperson for RoadPeace Lancashire.

If RPNW has had a change of leadership and/or opinion that's somewhat different to your statement, which suggests that your organisation wasn't involved in creating this section of the forum at all. :?

If you wish to distance yourself from the actions of a former member that's your prerogative, but you should at least do so honestly, instead of inferring that RPNW's involvement here is a work of fiction.


Hi,
The Northwest/Lancashire group of Roadpeace decided as a group that a forum would be a good idea. Paul kindly offered us space on his site. We thought that as a new group it would give us a better chance of 'getting' to more people, and they would be able to vent their feelings 'at ease' so to speak. We were a newly formed group and was finding it very hard to get established, for many reasons. This was a good way of promoting ourselves.
Within weeks of head office finding out, they asked us to remove the forum, inspite of the fact that members asked for it to remain..............what can I say??
I could reply to so much that has been said over this last 2 days on here. But, more than anything else, you have just confirmed my feelings, that doing what I have was the right thing to do.
Independently, I shall continue to support the people that have asked me to do so, and I am here should ANYONE want to talk.
Blessings

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'Wisdom is knowing how little we know'
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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 11:01 
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WildCat wrote:
Like belladonna - all on this site know that the Swiss family went down a big black hole once upon a time.

My cousin was killed - in my opinion und I will be blunt that ist highly subjective as this was ONE OF OURS!

He was in his mid 30s at the time of his death. In his prime of life.. He had children - was making his mark professionallly - steeering himself upwards .. climbing that tough ladder to the top of any profession.

He had young children. A nice wife.. home.

He had a life worth living .

He died.

A person driving a lorry struck his car.

a defective lorry whose operator clearly was not bothered with trifles such as servicing a vehicle


The driver lost control. He was in heavy slow moving traffic on a UK motorway. One of the illegal tyres blew. The brakes failed.

He went through the central reserve.

He hit oncoming traffic. My cousin's car took the first hard impact ...He died instantly. He did not suffer und for this our family thanked their God.

Later - Mary formed Brake. Her mother died this way. She was campaigning like ourselves to tighten up legislation und standard of car repairs. We joined up as a family group.

We also had another reason ME

I was driving along to work one day.. mionding my own business. I came to a traffic wave jam. I pull up in midddle lane. Lorries in L1 .. und middle lane looked like it would be crawling a little more smoothly up the gradient. It was unusually clear behind me. Empty in all 3 lanes. A traffic officer was parked in the hard shoulder. His lights were warning traffic of this congestion snarl up - motorway merges und a slip road junction possibly root cause of all this - plus HGVs on a gradient.


I stop - tarmac und tyres per usual. I make another check glance in mirror.. I see.. i coming at me . It was not reducing any speed .. it seem to be increasing. I glance around.. no escaping this one. I do not know why but I grabbed everything to hand und just adopted a crash position .. und prayed.

The man who hit my car had been taken ill behind the wheel of his car. He was dying slowly maybe before he kissed his wife on way out that morning as he had complained of feeling unwell.

We also campaigned to try to make all persons managers of selves und to accept that if they not feel well - really not well - then perhaps they should phone in und take day off to sort out .. see doctor.. whatever.

We distance selves from Brake .. in first few years of this century..

Pre-occupation with Speed Cams.. above all other issues. A very subjective point of view und one fuelled to some extent by "personal".

Like belladonna - we look beyond .. to wider world und larger picture. We see danger of single policy early on... und its effects on normal policing as people are literally "sold a poop" on this.

Thing came to head when this family were asked to front a campaign against speed - using our injuries to show how it "kills"

This was not true ..as what happened - what caused us great trauma und we still getting over it in reality - was not a speed issue.

We are pro driver training.. pro- a systematic safety approach. Hence the desire to bring COAST into driver psyche.

We do not see spede camera as solving anything.

They do not prevent any accident. People just slow down for them und speed up to dangerous level again afterward.

They do not cop insane drivers. They are useless at detecting a defective vehicle or a drunken/ drugged/ tired or ill driver.

Und with a drugged driver - how do you reason. They do not even think they are incompetent in that state - yet you hero DICK wants to legalise these. He only wants to make his burglray detection rate reflect "better"

Please cease deceiving yourselves.

Fir the internet troll - about the only person who loses a "beloved" seeking "legalisation". :roll: Given the number of user names and insane ramblings - I really believe - NOT! Some "support" you are for Brigitte and Mary.. :roll: They do actually require "sense" und not insanity ..

By the way - from BRAKE und RoadPeace websites .. not exactly in favour of drugs prescribed or downright illegal - anyway... :roll:

They need your insanity like they need hole in head to be honest.

Insurance revenues funds rehab for most part.

As for "hiding these scams"

If you want people to slow down - then they have to see them. What ist point of hiding them. Whole point of their being visible at black spot ist to show danger element to others = But then road side flowers have same effect - don't they?


Und as for your comment about Speed Awares.. yes we like these - COAST get taught. But they should be aimed at the RIGHT audience when all ist said und done und not the middle aged women und old geezers who end up getting invited over a 4 mph blip.

As for fine money helping victims. Insurance policies alreadymore than pay out a fair whack for this.. [i] und despite a battle to get justice from an insurance company which supports these charities .. (double standards und I fear a fest of :banghead: :hissyfit: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :censored: :furious: as I cannot find any word to fully describe the anger I feel to this so-called "insurance company" who tried to tell me that their client probably died before he hit me und he was this not insured by them ... I still got a very reasonable pay out after the courst sorted it once und for all.

I edit cos I miss something in typing.


You seem to have covered it all................. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:37 
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Widly,

You clearly have an inner strength and compassion which does you immense credit. I know that forgiveness is not one of my personal strengths; if someone were (heaven forbid) to seriously injure a member of my family because of their driving or poor vehicle maintenance I would be furious, and perhaps irrationally so.
I believe you are abosultely correct in your assessment of the average driver; they do try to drive safely and responsibly for the vast majority of the time.
However, I also believe that, as a society, we (the wider we) have adpoted an alarmingly casual attitude towards road safety, an attitude that is never in a million years going to be addressed by speed cameras, hidden or flourescent flippin' green with a neon arrow pointing to their location.
Companies set their drivers unrealistic timescales in which to do their work, we fill our cars with distracting 'must have' gadgets and, perhaps worst of all IMHO, we laugh at other peoples stupidity (such as the individual putting on makeup with no hands on the wheel).
"Ha, ha, ha" we say, "I've done that too, I just didn't get caught".
"Its bloomin stupid and dangerous" says some 'killjoy'
"Oh stop being so sanctimonious" comes the reply "we all do daft things, whats the harm in it"?

I think, as a result Wildy, I'm more or less with you on this issue. I want the message to sink through to the harassed mother chastising her kids, or the rep on his handy with a notepad on the wheel, that the immediacy of their current situation must be ignored until they are safely stopped and in a position to proceed with what they needed to do. But I don't want them to be spanked for minor, transient breaches of an absolute law when they are otherwise driving safely, simply because the technology exists to do so.


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 21:16 
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Rigpig wrote:
Widly,

You clearly have an inner strength and compassion which does you immense credit. I know that forgiveness is not one of my personal strengths; if someone were (heaven forbid) to seriously injure a member of my family because of their driving or poor vehicle maintenance I would be furious, and perhaps irrationally so.


Lieber Jeff - if you feel rage und hate - you never manage to heal. We learned this in the aftermath of what happened within the family.

First we lose Rudi in plane crash. Within a month his brother Ferdl dies. Few month later.. I am hit rather badly along with a number of others as well. I think you can appreciate that the Swiss would not use smiley icons at all in this fall-out of intense grief und anger.

We realise the anger begin to eat into us. We take a hard look at ourselves und accept that the person who lost control of aeroplane.. und persons who cause the two road accidents never intended us harm .. und their families deserve some compassions too. As they also suffer badly



We get to know the persons involved und we forged some lasting friendships .. ist a tight bond - even with those who caused - if normal decent und not the recidivist callous type who feel nothing.

Hate und wanting revenge on society or section of society does not heal anyway. It rather rub salt in wound. Hurts more .. hurts longer.

I get on with my life. I have children. I recover because of wanting to be a Mama to them. I also wanted my life back so I look always to the bright side ... the fun side. Entire family does this.. we look for the funny side of life as it beats the negatives hands down. :lol:

Our daft use of smilies at times ist a part of this.

I think people misunderstand this ... we try to make light of life. Ist the best way to live ... by keeping a sense of fun Our professions.. IG und his siblings in the Police force.. many of the rest in medical und legal und teaching professions und accountancy..(forensic .. fraud).. we see und are made aware of the sinister side of life.

Ist our protective shell perhaps - und we do use them to earn cash for our charities which include Victim Support und a lot of other worthy causes. Of course - we will place a percentage of this revenue for our host here as well. We do this as it gives reason to put a few pence in a jar for our friends und family. When Krissi posted as NTC on the cycling site .. we raised £4k for the tsunami appeal und other charities. Christmas? A fair amount again .. und we split 20% to various causes .. und naturally we did include a certain motoring cause which provide the smilies in first place :hehe:

Quote:
I believe you are abosultely correct in your assessment of the average driver; they do try to drive safely and responsibly for the vast majority of the time.
However, I also believe that, as a society, we (the wider we) have adpoted an alarmingly casual attitude towards road safety, an attitude that is never in a million years going to be addressed by speed cameras, hidden or flourescent flippin' green with a neon arrow pointing to their location.
Companies set their drivers unrealistic timescales in which to do their work, we fill our cars with distracting 'must have' gadgets and, perhaps worst of all IMHO, we laugh at other peoples stupidity (such as the individual putting on makeup with no hands on the wheel).
"Ha, ha, ha" we say, "I've done that too, I just didn't get caught".
"Its bloomin stupid and dangerous" says some 'killjoy'
"Oh stop being so sanctimonious" comes the reply "we all do daft things, whats the harm in it"?



We have created a soul less society, Me first und I do not mean insult to Roadpeace .. but this blaming all drivers for their trauma ist just not right.

I would like to know how a speed camera would have prevented the woman from turning to soothe her child as I cannot really see this link.

Und blaming all who drive cars for their losses... it ist to my mind a part of this soul -less society with its unrealistic expectations und haste in seeking litigation. Yet this same society wants to show its "compassion"

Only - it gives this compassion to perceived underdogs. Only these underdogs bit the hand which feed them .. over und over by stealing the cars.. fuelled by drink und drugs .. und we let them get away with it by wishy washy "justice" .. low fines.. community service ... und so on. :furious:





Quote:

I think, as a result Wildy, I'm more or less with you on this issue. I want the message to sink through to the harassed mother chastising her kids, or the rep on his handy with a notepad on the wheel, that the immediacy of their current situation must be ignored until they are safely stopped and in a position to proceed with what they needed to do. But I don't want them to be spanked for minor, transient breaches of an absolute law when they are otherwise driving safely, simply because the technology exists to do so.


Ist my view Jeff. If we are to help this type und let's face facts.. these are in reality decent folk. They are so mortified by such tragic slips they cannot contemplate the enormity. Guilt .. remorse overwhelme.

But the real killers are those which IG und his ilk across UK target.. the callous whio deliberately steal cars und drive in way which put us all at risk and these people as we know .. but Road Peace's Amy.. Brigitte.. Rita und Allan fail to appreciate in their blinkered vision that a speed camera somehow magics "responsibility" into this type .. are our killers who deliberately place all in danger for sake of a cheap thrill.

I do not know how to tackle these.

Mad Doc und self take on some real problems when we foster. We have one at the moment. He ist teenager with attitude und a drink problem already. He also has history of TWOC. We have some interesting interludes.. :roll: :wink: He storm off.. but within our grounds.... :wink: we have gate which require a garage door opener.. :lol: We do not use this device for any other reason than opening the gates to our land. :lol: Ist not our fault if interfere with some other device in this area :roll:

I know my :bib: cousins want to string them up und ask questions later if they could. Even if you showed them the graphic photos - this type would get a thrill from this. The sick dregs und as human being..I want to think they can be redeemed - only I know und fear the only way ist to lock up for life ...

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UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
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Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 09:51 
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Hi Wildy,

I've been having a think about what you've written above and I have to re-appraise what I said about getting angry above. The reason I say this is because I don't know how I would react, I can only theorise as I've never been put in the position that you, MM and your family have.
This is going to sound horribly sanctimonious and arrogant, but I deplore the sloppy society we're generating. People seem not to give a flying fig about standards anymore; perhaps top of the list is their driving. Who actually (outside of groups like this) cares about their own driving, I know plenty of people who just seem to think its a case of que-sera-sera, if I have an accident it propbably won't be my fault, I've been driving for umpty dumpty years and this is the way it is, if you don't like it..tough! I have a friend who is a mindless tailgater, he doesn't do it aggressively, he just gets much too close the vehicle ahead. I passed comment once and wished I hadn't :oops:
I know that I get angry or frustrated now when I witness acts of thoughtlessly stupid or overtly aggressive driving because I think to myself...why? Why did Vectraman dive into the ample space ahead of me as I approached a junction on the M54 and slam on his brakes to avoid hitting the car ahead so he could exit the motorway? Why not drop into the enormous gap behind me and just wait, literally, a few more seconds?
Why behave like that just to get yourself a few feet further up the road?How are you going to feel if it all goes horribly wrong one day, why put yourself in a position where you might have to feel remorseful of your actions.
I suppose its a case of just letting people be people, getting on with it and keeping an eye open for myself whilst I'm out there.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 13:26 
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Rigpig wrote:
Hi Wildy,

I've been having a think about what you've written above and I have to re-appraise what I said about getting angry above. The reason I say this is because I don't know how I would react, I can only theorise as I've never been put in the position that you, MM and your family have.


It was a very hard learning experience for us. We still feel some of the fall-out even now.

What we learned as well was that law see these thing in black und white. Ferdl became "the deceased" in inquest und trial.

Driver got points for each defect - under tot-up - equated to 6 month ban.

Operator who was really responsible as he neglect duty of care to his employee by not providing safe working environment received a fine und order to pay compensation - which his insurance dealt with.



People referred to me as "the patient" .. "the victim" :roll: We end up fighting his insurance company for ourselves und his widow. :roll:

Ist maybe as well as ist about "finding of fact" und the emotional baggage tend to get in way. We win because we kept to the facts und not the Mama of three toddlers with promising career looking a bit like not taking off at all at time. I was not too bothered about how they refer to me in court...as "victim"/ "patient" It detached us und helped us concentrate on getting fair outcome for all involved.


So objective detachment become part of the "shield" for those hurt - whether liable or not liable - so I can see why LAW deal in black und white und leave out the emotions.

Ist really what RoadPeace should be doing instead of wallowing und hyping up emotions based on personal experience. Why I do actually have more time to listen to Mary's views - und the only thing we seem to have issue there ist on the demand for more speed cams. Even Dick admits they are not the magic cure for rude road rage - which ist the root cause of many a prang.

Which ist what you say below Jeff. :wink:
Quote:
This is going to sound horribly sanctimonious and arrogant, but I deplore the sloppy society we're generating. People seem not to give a flying fig about standards anymore; perhaps top of the list is their driving. Who actually (outside of groups like this) cares about their own driving, I know plenty of people who just seem to think its a case of que-sera-sera, if I have an accident it propbably won't be my fault, I've been driving for umpty dumpty years and this is the way it is, if you don't like it..tough! I have a friend who is a mindless tailgater, he doesn't do it aggressively, he just gets much too close the vehicle ahead. I passed comment once and wished I hadn't :oops:


Ist the sheer complacency. Und you see this in work attitude too. Part ist dumbing down of exams. Fear of failing students in case feelings are hurt. But if they pass - exams are too easy.. if they fail - teacher ist lazy. We are too fickle.

Ist accepting your limitations - but striving still to try to make small improvements - but admitting that you are no rocket scientist in making - nor drivewise - a Sebastien Loeb type driver..or even close to matching the late great Richard Burns.

But making best of the ability level und always taking pride at whatever level.

Quote:

I know that I get angry or frustrated now when I witness acts of thoughtlessly stupid or overtly aggressive driving because I think to myself...why? Why did Vectraman dive into the ample space ahead of me as I approached a junction on the M54 and slam on his brakes to avoid hitting the car ahead so he could exit the motorway? Why not drop into the enormous gap behind me and just wait, literally, a few more seconds?
Why behave like that just to get yourself a few feet further up the road?How are you going to feel if it all goes horribly wrong one day, why put yourself in a position where you might have to feel remorseful of your actions.



Ist what I read in the article on the Rude Rage. Ist bad manners - und I think perhaps ist part of the TV dinners, processed food, not sitting down at table as family, spending time with family. You should try to spend a least one hour of uninterrupted chat with your man (or woman) in your life.

Ist silly time scales imposed by bosses. Ist unrealistic appointment time made by reps when planning business meets. (Mary at least acknowledged this in one PR - und yes - I happen to think she ist correct.) There are a lot of parallels with content on this site und the BRAKE site. The only point where we cannot reach a negotiation ist on policy on the speed cam which obsures, overshadows und undermines the real safety issue - which ist all about C O A S T!

Quote:
I suppose its a case of just letting people be people, getting on with it and keeping an eye open for myself whilst I'm out there.


We have to apply our COAST - we diffuse the danger they pose. Maybe they note the decent behaviour the see...but the THINK! adverts should really focus on good practice as opposed to [i] that /i] :roll: :roll: :roll: advert!

_________________
Nicht ganz im Lot!
Ich setze mich immer wieder in die Nesseln! Der Mad Doc ist mein Mann! Und ich benutzte seinen PC!

UND OUR SMILEYS? Smile ... und the the world smiles with you.
Smiley guy seen when you read
Fine me for Safe Speed
(& other good causes..)

Greatest love & Greatest Achievements Require Greatest Risk
But if you lose the driving plan - don't lose the COAST lesson.
Me?
Je ne regrette rien
!


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