Safe Speed Forums

Prompted by a cyclists jumping read lights rant on another site got me thinking about traffic lights & junctions.
[note this is not a thread attempting to justify jumping reds on a bike]

Most roads & left hand junctions aren't too bad in terms of cars & cyclists coming into conflict, sensible cycling & sensible driving makes it possible for both parties to maintain both safety & progress.

Traffic lights and to an extend right turns bring the two into conflict, a cyclist will be slower (often) to get across a junction and is likely to require a bit of wobble space to get going. Both of which are likely to (i.e. should!) impeed the progress of a sensible driver pulling away from the same lights, or worse still be hazardous for both cyclist and less sensibly driven car.

This to an extent makes me think the bike is in fact better off being away down the road ahead of the cars. The bike does its getting going without the cars around.. and when the cars do encounter it, its on a section of road where the conflict is reduced. Better for both parties?

Which makes me wonder what could be better about junction design with a view to not only safety for both parties but also best progress for both parties .
(often a problem for cycle lanes with multiple giveways whilst the road would give the cyclist right of way).

So traffic lights?
The advanced stop line doesn't really remove the conflict but may buy the cyclist a fraction of a second to get going.
What about an early green for cyclists.. good for their progress but i guess would slow down light sequences overall.
All red phases for combined cycle & pedestrian crossover?

Right turns?

Slip roads?
There was a brief discussion somewhere here about this problem, the current forcing the cyclist to give way & cross the slip road (supposedly on foot too!) isn't really satisfactory from a cyclists progress POV.
The only option I came up with was to take the cyclist off to the left of the off slip through a dedicated tunnel / over a dedicated brridge and back on to the left of the on slip... with its inherent on-cost & cleaning implications.


Any ideas..? go on.. think outside that metal box

An early green for cyclists is just going to mean more time where the cars are sat with all lanes showing red which in turn will increase congestion which will actually make things more dangerous for cyclists on all stretches of road approaching the affected junction.

Personally I think they should just legitimise what a lot of cyclists do anyway. Have a shared use pavement and cycle lane near the start of a junction. Have some raised curb bordering it to stop stupid pedestrians blithering randomly into it. and have a cycle section on the pedestrian crossing.

If space is at a premium then these cycle lanes across the crossings can be made one way, effectively turning it into a traffic light controlled roundabout for cyclists.

A well designed implementation could be better for cyclists progress if the lights were favourable on the approach.


For actual roundabouts. I strongly support bringing back the original design for them, where pedestrian crossings would run across the roundabout to the centre and pedestrians could congregate there before taking another crossing to their actual destination. This avoids the problem where the entire roundabout grinds to a halt because someone is walking slowly across the zebra crossing that's right at the roundabout exit, and also improves traffic flow in the cases where one roundabout has a very popular enterance (eg. from an industrial estate at 5PM) and people waiting at the other enterances don't stand a chance of getting on.

If we go back to that arrangement, again cycle lanes can be added to the crossings to the centre, we can arange for cyclists to go around the outside edge (one way) and for pedestrians to wait in the middle. It would require pelican crossings rather than zebra crossings though. I remain strongly opposed to cyclists using zebra crossings as they can be much faster than pedestrians and the time between them becoming visible to cars and the car actually being able to stop is too short.

Again, if the lights are favourable then it will be good for the cyclists as they'll be able to cut down the inside like they do anyway in a queue, up onto the path, over the crossing, over the next crossing and away.

I've just thought of an advantage of the advanced stop line; you don't need secondary traffic signals!

It would also help to cure the problem of motorists who pass over the stop line before stopping.