Safe Speed Forums

and yet unlit cyclists are branded as suicidal idiots.

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

That's because unlit cyclists at night are suicidal idiots!



Aren't they

well I've never run one down but they're often spotted quite late if they're wearing dark clothes.


probably

True, but if the car in question has xenon lights then the level control is always (or maybe almost always?) an automatic thing which the driver has no way of influencing.

How would you know if you hadn't I second johnsher's comment, never hit anyone, but too often (not that it's happened a lot, but even once is too often when a decent set of lights or a bit of hi-vis clothing costs peanuts, especially compared to the cost of some of the bikes being ridden in such a stealthy manner) I've only see unlit cyclists when I'm almost on top of them, which isn't ideal...

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Not this time, no. What I'd like to avoid is the one time when our paths *do* cross because of their inadequate visibility. Now, if we could rely on cyclists, pedestrians and other frequently poorly-visible road users to stick to predictable paths and not suddenly deviate from those paths into the paths of other road users without any warning, then I might not be quite as concerned over their lack of visibility. But we can't.

And whilst I might have been lucky so far in not having a crossing of paths, what about the poor sods who *have* suffered the physical and mental scars of such encounters?





In some circumstances, perhaps. But in other circumstances, whilst a significant number of those vulnerable road users continue to make no effort to improve their visibility, absolutely not.

not necessarily because the places they seem to disappear are darker sections of road with no oncoming traffic.

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

Under some circumstances, not all.




That assumes the system of streetlighting provides a minimum level of lighting across the entire road surface to allow for safe passage without the need for any additional lighting. I've experienced too many roads where the streetlights deliver only pools of light with dark gaps inbetween - not roads I'd want to drive down without the assistance of dipped headlights.

Your point of view makes sense on some urban roads, mine makes sense on the others. Given that not all urban roads currently meet what I'd consider to be the minimum level of lighting to make the non-use of headlights a safe and sane option, I'd prefer not to encourage drivers into switching their lights off in urban areas unless we could be absolutely certain they'd remember/realise to switch them on for those urban roads which *do* need them.

Is it nieve of me to think that people would turn them on automatically when they couldn't see? Serious question...

I think so, given the alarming number of drivers who successfully make their way out of town onto the open road at night completely unlit.

This means that their instrumentation is unlit, yet they did not notice that. What are the chances of them remembering to change from sides to dips if they can't even spot an unlit dashboard at night?

I think the probability of people forgetting to switch between lighting modes is far too great.

The above street light arguement might suit London, but elsewhere in the country the roads are far too poorly lit to rely upon street lighting.

In addition, it is difficult to tell unlit vehicles from parked vehicles in many urban conditions, so in my opinion we'd have more instances of confused road users overshooting queues etc mistaking them for parked vehicles.

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It doesn't necessarily mean that, as a lot of cars have instruments that are permanently illuminated - a few years back I had a SEAT Toledo with this feature. I would expect this to apply to the vast majority of cars driving around at night totally unlit.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

There's no need for your tone there so why not wind your neck in and keep this objective?

There's already a system for removing inept drivers from the roads, but the Police have their hands tied with speeders and paperwork so to be honest, I can't see your enforcement plan being too rigidly adhered to.

Sidelights and parking lights are one in the same thing aren't they? On the otherhand it's easy to see the glow from other vehicles dipped beams.

I don't have figures, but I do have eyes. You would do well to try driving round more rural parts of the country where people regard cars as motorised shopping trolleys and you might be alarmed at what you saw.

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Q. Are you a stupid fascist with limited reading skills or are you just a retard?

I'd also like to keep the topic civilised which everyone seems to manage except you.

Your tone is most condecending and rude. Not just in this post but in others.

This entire discussion is about opinion yet somehow you seem to think yours is more valid than mine.

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I think there's quite a bit of difference between someone placing a higher level of significance on personally collected data, and someone making snide comments about a posters comprehension abilities. It seems to me that you have a real bee in your bonnet regarding this particular topic, which is fair enough, but please let's try and avoid dragging the discussion down into personal attack level.



You're either lucky to live in an area with some well clued-up drivers, or you don't drive much after sunset! My day to day experience of urban, semi-urban and semi-rural (i.e. country roads within a few miles of built up areas, as opposed to country roads in the middle of nowhere) roads in the London/Thames Valley area suggests that seeing an unlit/sidelit-only vehicle once a week isn't much to get excited about any more. Just a couple of nights ago I saw someone pootling along L1 on the M4 with *no* lights turned on until a passing truck reminded them to light up with a few flashes of mainbeam and hazards... You may be able to dismiss it as not being an issue in your part of the country, but don't think you can dismiss it as not being a problem anywhere else.




Misuse of spots/fogs is a bugbear of mine, and if you choose to start up a new thread berating the numpties who do this then you'll have my full support.

Something nasty going on here:







I have sympathies with both sides in this, but I must remind all posters:

*ad hominem is banned. You're expected to attack the argument not the poster.

* Please let's keep it highly civilised and ensure that this remains the best quality road safety discussion available anywhere.

* It's easy to misunderstand someone else's position when you only know what you know through text based communication.

* Leave moderating to the moderators.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety