Safe Speed Forums

I am sure I am not the first to ask the question, as to why the government does little to tackle the apparent 2 million plus drivers, who have no interest in taxing,licencing or even obeying any road laws.

Like the great Chip and Pin launch, to tackle card fraud, which has been in operation in Europe for years already! why can the governemt at least adopt ideas already in operation in France and Germany, where details of insurance is at least displayed on the windscreen or number plate.

Then give traffic wardens more power and of course a private contract to trackdown these vehicles!

But then maybe, it is just too easy to trap law abiding citizens and dig even further into his or her pocket!

They do.

I've seen and heard of a few blitzes recently. They park up a camera van, then use pairs of bikers who tail the cars and pull them over.

It's quite effective in catching people. The problem is that they'll only be down the auction the same evening to pick up another Rover 216 for £50, to replace the one being crushed.

It's useless, Jub Jub.

They are ramping up towards being able to stop and sieze 150,000 uninsured vehicles each year, except they are having trouble getting there because it's proving to be expensive.

But DfT says we have over 2 million uninsured drivers, so the risk of a nick is rather less than once in 13 years.

DVLA say we have 1 million untaxed vehicles. They think they can clamp 100,000 this year. So the risk there is once per decade.

These policies aren't even keeping up with the growth, let alone solving the problem. It's policing by bluff and it isn't working.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Any proposals for what could be done then Paul?

Whitout mentioning speed cameras.

Other than including basic insurance and VED in fuel duty?

DVLA's records are so bad I wouldn't believe their figures anyway...

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

I don't think we can put the cat back in the bag. The resources are just too enormous.

I reckon give up and put a third party insurance fee as a levy on motor fuel. That'd be the end of uninsured driving and we could use the resources released to deal with other sorts of 'rogue drivers'.

People who wanted comp, would still pay an insurance premium, and if fuel-funded insurance policies were block-purchased by registration group from existing insurance companies the industry could be preserved.

We might also do the same trick with VED.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

And then as an incentive for claim free motoring, you either make the excess for all fault claims very large (more of a fine than excess really), and possibly allow tax refunds for each year of safe driving.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

If 3rd party insurance was included in fuel duty then what restrictions could be put on inexperianced (young?) drivers driving high performance vehicles. Currently insurance costs prevent this.

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Nick

This wouldn't work - it would remove the artificial limit through cost on young new drivers having high powered vehicles which we don't want.

Anyway aren't there already compensation schemes for innocent parties hurt or damaged by uninsured drivers? Adding it to fuel would just be another excuse for more tax.

I say we start with the justice system. the prospect of a jail sentence once every 13 years is much more of a disincentive that that of 2 hours community service.

I've lost count of the number of times I've read "currently banned.." or "393 motoring convictions..."

Still that's common of most crime these days....

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Wake me up when the revolution starts
STOP the Toll Tax http://www.traveltax.org.uk

How about some form of entitlement card required to buy fuel, that you have to stick in a slot in the pump before fuel will come out.

Not sure whether personal or related to the vehicle... I've only just thought of it.....

But surely more enforcement would increase the deterrent effect and possibly provoke a virtuous circle. And I can't believe these unlicensed vehicles are quite as hard to find as people claim.


There would still be other forms of unlawful driving though, as your vehicle would still need to be taxed and MoT'd, and you would still need the permission of the owner. I suspect few uninsured drivers currently are driving cars that are legit in every other respect, although I accept that putting insurance on fuel would perhaps bring some of them within the legal net.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

That's a crap system though isn't it?

It does nothing to prevent those prepared to drive uninsured and nothing to prevent the rich.

Better to have a graduated licence, with stiff penalties if caught out of power/weight group.

It's one of those deals where if the bar is set too high folk sneak underneath. They should be able to motor and they should be able to stick to the rules.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Daft question, but if other countries already put third party insurance onto fuel tax, then

(1) What (if anything) do they do to prevent young / inexperienced drivers from having high performance cars,

and

(2) Do young, inexperienced drivers in high performance cars feature more highly in their crash stats than in ours?

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CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!

Unintended consequence, but I wonder if mpg and insurance premiums are vaguely proportional? ie if you had this system, you'd use more fuel and therefore pay more insurance....

IIRC NZ has third party cover on it's fuel, however, when a car is bought sold the new owner has to pay to register the change of ownership.

In terms of driving standards they went from a UK based test system to a multi-stage system a la Aus and Germany, initial indications seem, to be promising...

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Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

Whilst the idea of putting insurance onto a gallon of petrol, may seem a great idea, it then takes away the benefit to many driver who are careful and claim free drivers.

As clearly if given the chance this would enable either the government or the insurance industry to rack up prices and profits further.

I cannot understand why the government, which is part of the European union, cannot look at systems already in place and apparently working in other EEC member states? no need for expensive research and enquiries, surely the idea of the European Union, is to share ideas!

Basically, we are too weak on crime! if finding untaxed and unlicensed cars was handed to a third parties contractor, cars would be found overnight.

Then the only probelm is the cost of disposal, well with scrap metal prices at an all time high, I am sure it could be a boost to some areas, who over the years have lost out to cheap labour abroad.

Whilst it is never going to be an easy answer, we cannot continue ignoring the growing ease of criminality and the lack of controls, as it is both a scandal and tragedy for the famillies, who have had to endure the suffering caused by this blight on society!

Sometimes an 'old machine' is 'beyond economic repair'. They are presently chucking serious resources at uninsured driving and it's getting worse.

Sooner or later you have to say enough is enough. I believe, personally, that we have reached that point.

Edited to add: And of course the only way we got here in the first place is through gross neglect.

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

You can add a third party insurance to fuel, but still mandate that drivers have their own insurance.

The actual cost on fuel would be very small, this lessens the "burden" on insurance companies and their customers and so premiums should fall, but means that when hit by an uninsured driver the 3rd party is still compensated.

The police can still throw the book at the uninsured driver and the barrier to inexperienced and young drivers driving powerful cars continues.

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It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.

Upton Sinclair

If the insurance companies at least changed their rules so that you are not penalised by increased premiums and lost NCD from having to make a claim due to an uninsured driver it would be a start. That is to say uninsured drivers are automatically considered to be at fault.

If the chance of being caught is once every 13 years then the fine should start at 13 times the insurance cost for their vehicle, this would only be lowered if they can prove how long they have been driving the car uninsured. If they cannot pay then community service hours calculated at minimum wage should be awarded to 'pay' the fine.

Human Rights - Human Responsibilities

Flame suit on.

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Driving fast is for a particular time and place, I can do it I just only do it occasionally because I am a gentleman.
- James May

If youngsters in powerful cars really is a problem then it should be solved by graduated licencing. The system we have at the moment is unfair and unrealistic.

I could be 18, with 6 months of good experience, extra training and a very level head and be paying more for a reasonable car (and we're not just talking 'powerful' cars here - I was quoted as much as £1500 for comp. cover on a 1.8l golf at 22), and my mate who's a complete norbert, but drives a 1.1cc bollock could be paying a tiny sum.

IMO a system whereby drivers get rewarded for good driving and SEVERELY punished for any accidents (possibly coupled with mandetory extra training) would work better than the current one.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.