Safe Speed Forums

JD - one of the differences from then and now i was trying to get over - when i lived as far north as you ( on the west coast ) -IAM - never heard of - mind you 45 miles of bad single track road taught you to drive, especially in summer --or end up in the ditch(dodging an idiot with a southern accent).And winter - 4 inch of snow temperatures low enough to create ice on the foreshore - skid correction was a soon aquired skill -
AA /RAC - oh yes they knew where we were - came up yearly to collect fees

Suspect that you met one of the idiot variety of Trafpols - most of those i've met were decent guys ,soley interested in road safety, advancement of driver education and prevention of accidents ( and no i'm just an ordinary driver who's been privelidged to meet a band of professional gentlement)

In fairness to the guy I don't think he had many options he could give me, as most advanced course you can go on were a good distance away.

Within the constraints of distance and a uni student's budget a carpark was about the best idea he could come up with.

He was chatty enough, and on the subject of winter driving (I'd done my test in winter and had lots of winter supervision with my father) he was of the opinion that it was best to just get out and do it.


I think with a healthier budget he'd have recommended some of the available courses.



On the subject of snow, I tried to turn off a junction a tad too quickly and bumped a kerb when I was 17. Knocked the tracking out a bit but once that was sorted I have been (touching lots of wood) fairly safe in the slippery stuff since then (you learn lessons quickly ).

When my fiancee moved up from S Wales to live with me (I was in the RAF down south when we met) the first thing she did come snow was ignore my father and I telling her to give work a miss, sneak out of the house early in the morning in snow and phone 20 mins later having belted my shiney car into an armco barrier

She's learned to respect snow since then too

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ok- JD - i've lived up in the north for many years - skidded on many single track roads , but found that come winter a nice greasy car park is a good place to have my first skid of the winter - have it before it has me so to speak. Don't know about the Aberdeen roads , but in my side of the country we got no snow ploughs ( only time one came up -blocked roads for hours) so we learned to drive in bad conditions ---2-4 in of snow , iced roads etc.

I believe this absolutely, and I love the (unfamiliar) terminology... recode by rolling up along the wrong dimension. It sums up the way I've been looking at it.

But these are difficult concepts for those who haven't studied learning or the driving process.

I'm reminded of Steve Haley's speed, surprise and space risk model. Perhaps it is easier to describe the problem as an 'imbalance' in the risk model? But of course most people don't even know they have a risk model.

How can we make progress in public communication with this?

Perhaps I just need to write an article?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

you will have to forgive me on this one Paul. as a professional driver, i fully believe that i am learning/gaining experience every minute i have a steering wheel in front of me. it goes with the territory

i will add a comment to the wider subject though. i personally would like to learn new skills but there are a couple of things getting in the way ie price and sourcing development training. take the SAFED course as an example. i wanted to attend the half day course but the government pulled the plug on free training and it would now cost me £250. i cant afford that

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Richie

SSAFA supporter
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=126025031585

I haven't read that article before but I must say it rings absolutely true, particularly the emphasis on surprise.

The way I see it, people have multiple "risk models" addressing different aspects of driving. There's obviously one we use to avoid driving into things, another we use to make sure we find our way to our destination and meet any deadline that we may be aiming for, don't run out of petrol, etc. One of these models addresses the risk of being penalised for illegal behaviour. These models are competing for attention and making conflicting demands on the driver, and we have to balance their priorities. The emphasis on speed encourages drivers to get that prioritisation consistently wrong. I don't know if these are being considered as part of one overall risk model, it makes sense to me to consider them separately.

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Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

Experiential learning is to some extent inevitable as Paul has suggested. However WHAT is learnt - particularly things like skills and behaviours - is not necessarily what might be desired.

"Experience - as can be shown in many actities, not just driving - can result in the embedding of bad practice unless those doing the learning REFLECT on their experiences.

Nearly all professional fields now place great emphasis on people becoming "reflective practitioners". (This is exactly what many of us use these forums for )

Experience will NOT guarantee the development of expertise taken in isolation - it can confirm false lessons in the worst cases.

Absolutely - and thereby evidencing the extreme vunerability of road safety to false and misleading information.

This is easily the most important part of the Safe Speed case - the quality of our drivers is a predictable function of what they believe and understand as they gain experience.

We know this, but the rest of the world doesn't. How do we tell them?

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

That's what I said...

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety