Safe Speed Forums

I've had two accidents in the last month, both on the same stretch of road, both of the drivers that hit me were on the wrong side of the road, both of these were on tight corners with reduced visibility due to bushes.

The first 'clipped' the corner and drove into me drivers side wing to drivers side wing, and the second was on the wrong side of the road completely, my only escape route would have been to mount the pavement.

However, pedestrians being pink and squishy, this was not an option so I came to a halt before being hit each time.

I'm noticeing that more and more drivers near where I live seem to take the 'racing line' and cut, clip or take corners on the wrong side of the road.

Has anyone else noticed this as a problem, anyone else been hit or had a near miss as a result, any thoughts on a solution?

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

I take the racing line myself but never in reduced visibility kind of places.... People may be cutting the corner to avoid having contact with the bushes if they're on their side of the road.

First thing I'd do is find out who has responsibility for keeping the bushes cut back. A story in the local paper might also be a good way of letting people know what it is like and making sure if it is the council that they keep them well cut. If it is a householder and the bush was a contributory factor you could try putting the wind up them by saying you are going to claim for injury from them as it is their bushes causing the visibility problem....

To reduce likelihood of accident you could reduce your speed to half the distance you can see to be clear or slower if you have already tried that. You'll probably be on here later complaining you have been rear ended

The only place I can think of I know that sounds like that is Audlem. It has very narrow streets, narrow pavements and has HGVs thundering down it. You can at least use reflections from windows to see whether there is anything coming the other way. You can squeeze two cars passed as long as both are no more than a few inches from each kerb but there is a tight corner where larger vehicles would snag cars if they meet. I usually stop dead on the tight corner or stay in first gear. There is a handy junction which gives a little more room so you can get a more rounded approach. Some berk has taken to parking their car in the road which has always previously been clear so you have to squeeze past on a narrow but straight section further down the village. I don't know how large vehicles get passed it when it is parked there.

I just slow right down as there isn't any other solution.

I dont think that it's because they are taking the racing line or that, it's just the fact that they are cutting the corner. Next time you are out and no matter what type of corner / bend it is watch how many of the approaching cars etc cut the corner, I think its called p**s poor driving.
Stephen

Justy to clarify, imagine an inverted 'U' it's exagerated I know but I'm coming up the right hand leg to bear round left, the bushes are in between the right and left legs of the inverted 'U' so by cutting the corner or being on the wrong side it's actually putting them closer to the bushes.

Am finding now at night I give a couple of flashes on main beam as I approach the corner.

As for my speed, I slow to about 5mph and am first gear when taking these particular corners. Have always been able to stop before the other car hits me. No doubt about the rear ending, am now very cautious about these corners.

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

I was taught to maximise the forward visibility by straddling the white line if necessary. Is that *** poor driving, if so could my employer get a refund from the trainer?

They're talking cutting a right hand, you're talking left hand visibility.....

my instructor taught me to position to the left on right handers & to the right up to the centre line on left handers if it helped visibility (although he admitted he would cross it if it was safe & the visibility gains high enough).

this i did religiously for the rest of that lesson until he said 'errr.. if there are cars coming the other way you might want to move in a bit'
(he soon learned that i did what i was told, precisely!)


maybe a related note, its common to be approaching a T junction or X roads say turning right or going straight on.. slowing toward the give way line, road position to the right of the lane..... and have someone come from the left turning right, and taking a large portion of your bit of road with them.
the expectation seems to be that you should stop short of the line to avoid clipping them, or if you're already there that you get glared at for being an inconvenience!

I've noticed an increased number cutting corners (taking the "racing line") and have (rightly or wrongly) attributed it to current speed camera policy. The speed limit where I most often see this is NSL/60 but the road's only good for about 50 mph - even in the dry - unless you take the "racing line". Limited visibility around the bends means that you probably need to be doing 40 or less to stop in the distance you can see is clear and can reasonably expect to remain clear. However, the Government has warranted the road to be safe at 60 mph ...

_________________
Will

Not true.

It's NSL, which means it's up to the driver to decide what the limit is. Unfortunately a lot of people don't know this any more.

Bring back derestricted I say!

I sympathise.

Lots of people drive like that up here too.

Infact, the speed the car is driven on difficult roads is usually inversely proportional to the driver's ability and the car's road holding abilities.

As a child I was a passenger in my father's car when he was hit in very similar circumstances. He was approaching a 90deg right hander with high grass verges masking the view, when "company car man" (it was red - that's all I remember, apart from it being a company car) came round the corner on our side of the road. Again, my father stopped and the guy skidded into us.

Fortunately for me I've always remembered this and have never been keen on country roads. Although my cars have usually been fast and good handling cars, I often have a couple of crap cars up my backside driven by ugly old women, fat middle aged men or children trying to go faster round the bends. I should add that the space widens on the straights, but as I come out of each corner - they're right back up my arse again

My caution is perhaps not helped by having skidded into a telegraph pole straight off a corner on a damp road back when I was 21. That and every week I see at least one car in a field I've even seen a Police car on it's side in a field once. My dad pulled up to ask the copper if he was ok - and we were told very sharply to "just f*** off"


Without meaning to diverge too much, I've been driven round tiny Welsh valley roads quite a bit by the mother-in-law in her Ford Ka. She doesn't use her gears, and she doesn't ever go above 40mph. That said she doesn't ever seem to slow for the corners either - you know the Welsh ones, which tighten half way round, on slopes, adverse camber, often with 6ft wide mini-floods running across when the topography is right.

Seriously, she plows into these corners with much more commitment than I ever would with my much grippier cars. As a passenger - it's completely unmistakable that we are understeering more of the time - scraping/grating noises, rumbles, excessive steering wheel movement, varying sideload without varying steeringwheel movement......

Not only that, she's chatting the whole time too

Is she really that much more skilled a driver than me? Or is she just completely ignorant to the fact that she is perilously close to the car's absolute limits on every corner - and that should Farmer Jones appear mid bend that she has no options at all?

I guess my point of all this rambling is this:

Is my mother-in-law indicative of the type of mindless "driving" practiced and displayed by most people on the road - including those who could see no reason to ensure that they could control their vehicles properly round blind bends as the OP has suffered twice?

_________________

That happened to me on the same stretch of road that I see most corner cutting. I saw a car upside down in a deep ditch and stopped to offer help. When I stopped, a policewoman told me there was nothing to see. I said, "since you're already on the scene I guess that I don't need to call you and you can call an ambulance if needed." She then told me to f*** off - but it wasn't until I was pulling away that I saw 3]I7Od written down the side of the overturned car and realised it was hers!

_________________
Will

Look at road markings on most corners and most of them are worn away. Cutting corners isn't the racing line, not that I have any experience on a track. But you can go faster around the outside of the corner because you have more corner to go around.

Nah. Is that what you see in F1?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The racing line could loosely be described as cutting corners, so in that respect I think you've got it exactly backwards. But the racing line isn't usually the appropriate line to take on public roads. The purpose of the racing line is to minimise the forces acting on the vehicle, which is fine if maximum performance is your goal. However, on public roads it is more important to position for visibility and to avoid hazards.

_________________
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

It depends on where the corner is in the track as to weather or not it is benificial to cut the corner or not. F1 is cack so I don't watch it, but I do watch Moto GP and the bikes can often be seen right on the outer curb of the track picking up masses of corner speed on exit. But it is not really relevent because they don't have insurance premiums to worry about.

I don't think that's correct. However, if you are only looking from a single vantage point then you are unlikely to see the whole corner and won't see where the apex is.

_________________
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

Would be interesting to see photos of the OP's offending corner, is that possible?

Edit: http://www.photobucket.com host pics for free.

I'll be out this week taking some photos so if anyone can host them I'll e-mail them on, with a little luck I can find some cars doing it as well.

_________________
Gordon Brown saying I got the country into it's current economic mess so I'll get us out of it is the same as Bomber Harris nipping over to Dresden and offering to repair a few windows.

Chaos, panic and disorder - my work here is done.

http://www.wildcrafts.co.uk

There's nothing wrong with taking the "racing line" it's generally a good idea even if you're not racing.

Examples:

- Driving an underpowered car and not wanting to slow down as much and further aggravate the queue of latent frustration behind you

- Driving a van and wanting to minimise G-Forces on your load

- Travelsick passengers

- Being a pedantic bastard and sticking as close to 60mph as you possibly can without compromising safety, since that's what the government wants these days and hell you need to make up the time somewhere.


So long as you continue to apply all the other rules of good driving, such as being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear and having an escape route ready. Doing it on a blind corner is for idiots though.


I don't have a problem with it, providing it's done right.

Only just seen this thread for the first time tonight.

1) SE - is it possible that, because you are going so very slow (5mph), with dipperd beam, you are actually obfuscated by the bushes for sufficiently long that the one coming around towards you has observed and (wrongly) sussed it as clear?

2) How much forward visibility around the left hander do you get, say, 4 - 10 seconds before reaching the bushy apex? If "plenty", consider, if it is clear, going quicker, but being over to the RHS (possibly VERY RHS) of the road, on main beam, ready to move back in and dip if you've missed something but otherwise being able to get through the bend at a more reasonable pace, knowing it is clear, thereby being in the danger zone for a much shorter time, and providing you better visibility of any unforeseens and, more importantly, others sooner visibility of you, and therefore both of you more time to get your respective ducks in a line.