Safe Speed Forums

I'm trying to understand a couple of proposals...

1) If something in the same market segment costs twice as much, it's likely that twice as much energy was consumed in manufacture.

2) Ultimately the higher the price of anything, the more energy is likely to have been consumed in manufacture. (Even taxes, profits to shareholders or payments to staff will ultimately result in the purchase of something that consumed energy.)

[I'm really looking for a shorthand way of doing energy consumption comparisons.]

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

The argument against that might be that a wooden toy pedal car made from sustainable wood and hard graft might cost £600

A plastic toy pedal car made from oil and cheap labour and a big hungry machine might cost £15

I would generaly agree that the more money somthing costs the more general resources went into its production but you may have to give it a sustainability multiplier to correct for "green effort"

A set of glass collector tubes for your eco heation system may have consumed more energy in thier production than you can save in years of using them!

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Another way of looking at polution is where you spend your first and last pound of your income

If you proritise in the things that you might do

Housing, Local materials , local labour, the less you earn the smaller home
Food, The less you earn the more local your food is produced
Energy, the less you earn the smaller your house and bills
Transport: the less you earn the less you fly, the smaller your car
Entertainment: Trip to the pub, trip to London, trip to New York shopping


Almost every thing you do, The more you earn the less green you get

_________________
Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code

Yeah but the £600 (labour cost) goes into 'consumer spending'. Doesn't that 'balance the books'?



Hell yes. And photovoltaics and wind power.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I remember reading an analysis of recycling in a US town which used a similar approach i.e. adding up the energy required to wash stuff to be recycled (because people usually do, it seems), carry them to the recycling plant, sort, clean, grade etc, then the actual reprocessing, additional manufacturing costs to incorporate the recycled materials, plus the indirect costs of the services used to support this work (create/maintain/dispose of vehicles, move staff to/from work, heating etc). Cost was used as the lowest common denominator, and the cost ultimately broke down into energy and materials with energy being the dominant part in the case. (The conclusion was that this recycling effort was catastrophically bad for the environment.)

I also remember reading a 'peak oil' report which showed that average personal disposable wealth was linked extremely strongly to national energy consumption and this holds true across a huge range of places and times.

_________________
Peter Humphries (and a green V8S)

The selling price of something is not necessarily strictly related to the costs of inputs. Take high end hifi as a good example. The actual cost of components is tiny compared to the price tag. The energy used in manufacture will depend on where the components are sourced from. Ironically the bloke sitting there hand winding transformers for audionote may be more sustainable and using less energy than the cheaper machine wound equivalent all things considered.

Is this to do with the "energy footprint" waffle the Beeb had on last night?

Which seemed to say that small crowded countries use more energy per square foot than large empty ones? Apart from America, the relationship seemed pretty obvious.

How much do football players cost?

I think somewhat it is true, but I have thought of some possible exceptions...
Cheap/free newspapers with adverts.
'lost leaders' in supermarkets etc.
I suppose the generic term for these would be things which are subsidised and the money is coming from other places.

Pay-for parking wouldn't count.

Anything second-hand wouldn't count. Ah, that'd explain the football players then.

_________________
Andrew.