Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Sat Sep 21, 2019 21:05

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Hardknott Pass incident
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 00:55 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
News item in Cumbria today

A group of children in a minibus had a lucky escape on Hardknott Pass today.
Quote:
Minibus carrying kids overturns

Published on 27/07/2006

A MINIBUS full of schoolchildren overturned on a road in West Cumbria this morning.

The nine children, from a school in Essex, and the four adults accompanying them were shaken but unhurt following the incident on the Eskdale side of the Hardknott pass.

The road was blocked for almost four hours as police from Ambleside and Windermere co-ordinated the recovery of the vehicle.

The minubus is thought to have overturned while negotiating a bad bend at the bottom of a steep hill. The road was cleared by 1.45pm.

The children, who were completing the three peaks challenge, were then taken to Ravenglass.


Apparently the local residents are already calling for speed limits to be introduced, along with cameras and speed humps.
A local councillor said it has been an accident waiting to happen, and said residents are fed up with the road being used as a "rat run" at busy times.

The lucky escape of these children just goes to show how dangerous this road is. A call for the road to be widened to allow a lane exclusively for busses and cars carrying passengers was rejected.
Residents of the Duddon Valley which bears the brunt of traffic which diverts from Hardknott at busy times are expected to campaign for a by-pass.



[/tongue in cheek mode off] :twisted:

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 11:14 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 18:54
Posts: 4036
Location: Cumbria
They did well to get a minibus that far! (assuming they came from the Ambleside end over Wrynose)! I wonder, as the crow flies whether it's within few enough miles of the A595 for CSCP to justify sitting in a lay-by with a scamera? :wink:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 14:39 
Offline
User

Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 12:33
Posts: 770
Location: Earith, Cambs
NSL applies, so they might catch one person a year if they got lucky.
Fancy trying to take a mini-bus with kids over that demanding road - bloody stupid!
It's great in my Cooper 'S' flat-out at night in the wet though.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 18:09 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
I have driven a minibus over Hardnot and Wrynose, and the Mountain Goat used to use the route regularly.
When you know the road, you get lined up for the bends in advance, and Transits and the like have a better lock than some cars.
The difficulty arises when somebody comes the other way who does not pull over/off the raod to allow you to pass. If you were to be tempted to put your wheels too close to the edge, then the outcome is going to be either hitting a rock/grounding the vehicle, or slipping too far over and losing it.
It would'nt help if the passengers leaned over to look. It remains to be seen what the cause was here, but the fact the vehicle was from Essex leads me to make assumptions - perhaps incorrectly! :lol:

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2006 22:59 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 18:54
Posts: 4036
Location: Cumbria
Funny you should both mention that! First time I ever went over the Hard Knott pass was as a kid in my parents Sherpa camper van - that was interesting!

Also agree with the turning circle comments. I went over there in a TVR many years later and had to "kick" the back round each of the hair pins!

My favourite story about the pass was told to me by a friend of my wife's - a native of these parts. Apparently, her grandad used to drive amunition trucks full of high explosives over the pass during the war - IN THE BLACKOUT! :o Eventually, they stopped him doing it when they discovered he was blind in one eye and had a cataract in the other! :yikes:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 03:31 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
When the Mountain Goat first started, they used ex-TARMAC crew busses, which had often seen better days.
A friend that used to drive one once had the dubious pleasure of driving an old Perkins diesel Transit over the Ambleside to Eskdale route. At the top of Hardknott, there was a clatter from the front, and the vehicle rolled to a halt.
On lifting the bonnet, he discovered the engine had rolled over in the compartment because all the mounts had corroded through!

The minibus I drove over was also a Transit - an ex-St.Annes school bus, which had been on school trips to India and back three times!
Eventually, the propshaft central mounting gave way unexpectedly on a trip to Kendal!
We got home by fastening it back up using luggage elastics, and taking it real easy! :o I somehow doubt the modern busses will be as robust and get so many miles!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 07:31 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 22:23
Posts: 303
I had an old Meastro that would get brake fade very quickly on that road or would overheat if I used engine breaking.
I usually had to pull over for twenty minutes every two hundred yards.
Ernest, do you ever sleep?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 08:59 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz :!:

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 09:54 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
paul w wrote:
I had an old Meastro that [...] would overheat if I used engine breaking.


Eh? With the throttle shut, the engine is burning an absolute minimum of fuel, thereby generating the minimum of heat, so overheating seems extremely unlikely.

Are you sure?

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 10:13 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 22:23
Posts: 303
Very!

Infact if you sat in stationary traffic it was liable to overheat also but if you turned the blower onto full heat it was possible to bring it down a bit.
Not nice on a hot summer day


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 13:08 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
Slack fan belt?

Too much slip, leading to poor cooling at low revs? :idea:

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 13:13 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Ernest Marsh wrote:
Slack fan belt?

Too much slip, leading to poor cooling at low revs? :idea:


Yeah, perhaps, but it isn't low revs when you're engine braking on a descent.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 13:32 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 22:23
Posts: 303
It also overheated at speeds above 70 mph too which was an achievement considering it was a 1300 four speed.
Cornered like a carrier bag full of water.
I bought it of a Vicar in Wales, the Reverand Pagan I kid you not!
I never did get to the cause of the overheating.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 20:07 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Fri Apr 09, 2004 14:04
Posts: 2325
Location: The interweb
Ernest Marsh wrote:
Slack fan belt?


What have you been driving the last 30 years? :lol:

Do any cars even have a belt driven fan any more?

paul w wrote:
Infact if you sat in stationary traffic it was liable to overheat also but if you turned the blower onto full heat it was possible to bring it down a bit.
Not nice on a hot summer day


That suggests the cooling fan (electric) was not coming on, or the thermostat wasn't opening properly. Possibly both but both very easy to diagnose.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 20:22 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
I suppose it depends on the Maestro.
I've had two, and my brothers-in-law had one each, and none of them performed anything like the same!

(Edited to add) Yes, some early Maestros had belt driven fans, and crap Leyland engines! Mine first had the same 1000 cc engine as my uncle's Mini! Then came the 1100 Honda based engine - which I bypassed in favour of the 2.0 Ltr diesel - which was the Austin Princess' petrol engine, given to Perkins, and turned into a diesel!! :o It was also fitted into Sherpa Vans, and provided too much vacuum for the brakes, and had to have a bleed valve to reduce the suction!

If the belt is slack to a certain point, the pulley slips at low revs, spins enough up to a certain point, then the revs/heat surpass the ability of the belt to turn the fan fast enough??

Some BMC engines were prone to poor belt tension/cooling, and there was a product which I think was called "Belt-stick" which looked like a stickof black bitumen, which you held against the belt, and it improved the grip. My father had a J4(?) van (with the engine in between the front seats), which lived with the aid of Belt-stick! I used up the last of it about 8 years ago, on our compressor at work, until I could obtain and fit a new belt.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 20:35 
Offline
User

Joined: Sun May 01, 2005 22:23
Posts: 303
Homer wrote:
very easy to diagnose.


Believe me I checked everything looking for the cause and found nothing obvious.
Came to the conclusion it was just a bag of shit!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2006 21:11 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
paul w wrote:
Came to the conclusion it was just a bag of shit!


'Fraid so. The worst car I ever drove was a Maestro.

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 00:09 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 00:24
Posts: 2400
Location: Kendal, Cumbria
Homer wrote:
Ernest Marsh wrote:
Slack fan belt?


What have you been driving the last 30 years? :lol:

Do any cars even have a belt driven fan any more?

Yo! Mine has. Viscous coupled, granted, but belt driven nonetheless.

Better go to bed, before I start telling "favourite Hardknott Pass stories"...

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 00:15 
Offline
Site Admin
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 06, 2004 06:46
Posts: 16903
Location: Safe Speed
Homer wrote:
Do any cars even have a belt driven fan any more?


Yes, but possibly more importantly, most cars have a belt driven water pump. (Don't they? I can't remember ever seeing a car engine that didn't have a belt driven water pump - but then my head isn't under bonnets much these days.)

_________________
Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2006 00:22 
Offline
Member
Member

Joined: Thu Mar 11, 2004 00:24
Posts: 2400
Location: Kendal, Cumbria
SafeSpeed wrote:
Homer wrote:
Do any cars even have a belt driven fan any more?


Yes, but possibly more importantly, most cars have a belt driven water pump. (Don't they? I can't remember ever seeing a car engine that didn't have a belt driven water pump - but then my head isn't under bonnets much these days.)

Some of the newer BMW units have electric water pumps, eg the new V10 fitted to the M5 / M6. As far as I can tell it is basically a friction saving exercise to add a marginal increase in power and ensure that they stay ahead in the arms race with Audi / Mercedes.

_________________
CSCP Latin for beginners...
Ticketo ergo sum : I scam therefore I am!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 29 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.430s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]