Safe Speed Forums

The campaign for genuine road safety
It is currently Mon Jun 24, 2019 14:39

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: Indispensible Roads
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 00:55 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
Today the A591 was closed for a while, following an accident at Troutbeck Bridge - just next to my son's school - and indeed where Kendalian and myself spent much of our childhood!
Image

I believe two vehicles were involved, and three people were *killed, although I have yet to see or hear that confirmed.
I sincerely hope that they dont use the school, and this sudden increase in KSI's to place a camera.

What is more worrying is that the only route between Grasmere, Ambleside and the south (Windermere, Kendal and the M6) was once more closed.
I have no worries over the closure - the road has to be surveyed and recorded, BUT there seemed to be a lack of police manpower to prevent more and more vehicles adding to the chaos at junctions BEFORE the crash scene.

If an emergency had arisen North of the closure, the Air Ambulance which was already attending the first crash, would have been the only option for others in difficulties.

*Edit: One person Killed, one taken to hospital via AirAmbulance and later released. :oops:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/4945282.stm

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 17:23 
Offline
User

Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2004 18:58
Posts: 306
Location: LanCA$Hire ex Kendal
Yes, from the reports I've read it appears to be a carbon copy of a collision at the same point in July 1983, which I remember very well.

A Toyota Landcruiser type vehicle travelling towards Windermere collided head on with (I think) a Fiesta - killing a Police Sergeant's wife from Ambleside. The driver was FOUR times over the limit....

In those days no one blamed speed per se - NSL there in those days - let's see what they blame this time :roll:

_________________
That's how Nazi Germany started. They'll be burning books next. (Brian Noble, Wigan coach - updated 20/4/06!!).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 22:50 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
Wasn't that Mr Graham's wife that was killed?

I remember it happening, there were family members in the car.

In this latest case, had there been pupils walking home as usual, then the toll could have been much higher.
It really shows statistics for what they are - the circumstances which led to this accident could have led to a higher toll, but time of day mitigated the KSI to just two.

Put a camera there now, and you could guarantee to reduce the KSI total in just one year! :oops:

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 23:09 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 02, 2005 00:45
Posts: 1016
Location: Mighty Tamworth
What worries me I have just read your post, and an image came into my head of some bloke in a suit rubbing his hands thinking about putting a Scam there.

_________________
Oct 11 Birmingham Half Marathon. I am running for the British Heart Foundation.
http://www.justgiving.com/Rob-Taylor


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 06:55 
Offline
User

Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2004 15:05
Posts: 1225
Location: Glasgow
ree.t wrote:
What worries me I have just read your post, and an image came into my head of some bloke in a suit rubbing his hands thinking about putting a Scam there.


Yeah, and we know the bloke's name....

:roll:


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 14:25 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
r11co wrote:
ree.t wrote:
What worries me I have just read your post, and an image came into my head of some bloke in a suit rubbing his hands thinking about putting a Scam there.


Yeah, and we know the bloke's name....

:roll:

And in the case of the Data analyst, it's a WET suit! :(

Comment overheard this week.... "There should be a speed limit there"

Actually there already is, and it is usually observed, or even driven BELOW the posted (40) limit.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 17:51 
Offline
Police Officer and Member
Police Officer and Member

Joined: Thu Dec 09, 2004 22:53
Posts: 565
Location: Kendal
Ernest Marsh wrote:
r11co wrote:
ree.t wrote:
What worries me I have just read your post, and an image came into my head of some bloke in a suit rubbing his hands thinking about putting a Scam there.


Yeah, and we know the bloke's name....

:roll:

And in the case of the Data analyst, it's a WET suit! :(

Comment overheard this week.... "There should be a speed limit there"

Actually there already is, and it is usually observed, or even driven BELOW the posted (40) limit.


You're right Ernest, it's a 40 limit which is entirely appropriate for the most part of the road, but the bend at the school is very rarely taken at that speed.
Yet there have been a number of fatals along that road. :(, and someone in the Gazette this week was thinking of starting a campaign for limit reduction for this road, saying "It would be nice to think that something good can come out (of) such a tragic situation."

Quote:
What is more worrying is that the only route between Grasmere, Ambleside and the south (Windermere, Kendal and the M6) was once more closed.
I have no worries over the closure - the road has to be surveyed and recorded, BUT there seemed to be a lack of police manpower to prevent more and more vehicles adding to the chaos at junctions BEFORE the crash scene.

The scene required quite an involved survey, and much of the evidence was transient, and needed to be recorded at the time. It's strange being in the protected bubble in the middle, not fully realising what mayhem is happening around.

Quote:
If an emergency had arisen North of the closure, the Air Ambulance which was already attending the first crash, would have been the only option for others in difficulties.


We'd always find a path through if possible in those circumstances.

_________________
Fixed ideas are like cramp, for instance in the foot, yet the best remedy is to step on them.

Ian


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 19:40 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 23:26
Posts: 9259
Location: Treacletown ( just north of M6 J3),A MILE OR TWO PAST BEDROCK
Quote:
IanH
You're right Ernest, it's a 40 limit which is entirely appropriate for the most part of the road, but the bend at the school is very rarely taken at that speed.


What happened to the old common sense "ACCIDENT BLACKSPOT" or the modern wind/solar powered SID ,"SLOW DOWN" - i suppose in the afteramath of this the SCP mentality will rise , and poor old common sense will fail.Blame the driver again, not the education /information system.

_________________
lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 22:51 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
It's laughable - several officers were detailed to aid pupils forced to walk home, cross Rayrigg Road safely - yet the traffic there was gridlocked!! :o

I telephoned Radio Cumbria an hour before the children were released from School to ask that parents be warned NOT to set off while the road was blocked, but they told me the info. could only come from the school!
I tried the school, which was engaged, so I rang Kendal Police - only to get a lady who despite me telling her the school was alongside the accident, had to ask three times where the school was and what it was called!
She also said only a senior officer could ask that parents be requested to refrain from setting off to collect their children! She then suggested it might even have been cleared up by the time the pupils were released!!

Because many parents from Windermere had tried to circumvent the queues they found by going via Bowness and Rayrigg Road, they found themselves trapped in traffic while their children had to walk home - in a few cases to empty homes :oops:

The Holbeck Ghyll road was gridlocked with cars meeting each other on a narrow lane - so the only route available from Ambleside would be via Hawkshead!

My final concern was that pupils who only recently had lost one of their number in the accident on Bannerigg - involving a silver Peugeot 206, had been forced to walk home past yet another fatal scene, also involving a 206. It was upsetting to some pupils apparently, and cannot have been convenient to the officers trying to survey the scene, and free the woman apparently trapped in her car either. Yet an hour before, I had pointed out that an alternative route around Old Hall Road would prevent pupils from having to witness the scene at such close hand - but the unco-operative lady answering the call to Kendal had dismissed my concerns and information. :oops:

I was lucky in that I had a contact in the village to check the circumstances with, and I could contact my son via his mobile phone, and tell him he would have to walk home, but I could only contact two other parents whose details I knew, to keep them informed. I was disapointed in the attitude of the female who answered the call to Kendal, and her lack of knowledge of the area. That in itself would be excusable if she were to transfer my call to somebody who knew more - but she did not.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Last edited by Ernest Marsh on Sun Apr 30, 2006 23:11, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 23:09 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
I suppose a call for a reduced speed limit was inevitable in this age where people have been exposed to the "Speed Kills" message for so long.

Perhaps the fatals along here could be documented along with the causes?

Since the narrowing of the stretch between White Cross Bay and Calgarth Park with the ridiculous cycle path, speeds and overtaking have reduced.
The road surface in Troutbeck Bridge also negates the need for speed calming, as the speed humps already exist due to lack of maintenance!! :roll:
The Windermere side of the village is only rarely subject to speeding - usually at night - and drivers who allow their speed to carry into the downhill stretch past the Sun Hotel only do so due to lack of experience, or chemical influences!

My cousin ran into the side of a passing van when she was twelve.
Mrs Allington - (a pedestrian) lost her life here, as did the policeman's wife mentioned by Kendalian. Most of the accidents I remember involved drivers under the influence, or carelessness like my cousin's accident.

A Windermere bookmaker lost his license because of being stopped over the limit here.
But a 30 limit would bunch the traffic more, and make exiting the Lakes School driveway even more difficult at busy times and have little effect on accidents.
If they DO impose a limit, I would have to ask that they put traffic lights at the end of the Lakes School driveway!!

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 23:31 
Offline
Camera Partnership Staff
Camera Partnership Staff
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 19:48
Posts: 1995
not my area but

the word fatal is all to common

kids walking past a fatal scene, after a classmate had been involved in another fatal

the enquiry clerk (are they to blame) is not in the postion to decide officer deployment, thats down to the SGT, INSP or CI

radio cumbria are not in the position to deploy resources, only make the public aware of a incident / problem


an unfortunate series of events (is that a film)

_________________
now retired


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 23:50 
Offline
User
User avatar

Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2005 00:15
Posts: 5232
Location: Windermere
Quote:
radio cumbria are not in the position to deploy resources, only make the public aware of a incident / problem

Accepted! That was all I expected of them - this is a rural school, and MANY children are bused or driven to school.
It quite clearly was not going to happen on this day, my contact in the village told me that the emergency services were still trying to free an occupant, and the queues were extensive, but nobody else thought to try and warn the parents against setting off and adding to the queues.

I have contacted Radio Cumbria on this, and they are looking into it, as clearly the proximity of the school, and a major through route closed to traffic should trigger a warning to parents via the media - but it didnt.
As an interim measure, I have been given a contact number to call, if I see anything of concern.
But it is to be hoped that in future, that any information from concerned parties which could be quickly verified if run past an officer on the scene (ANY officer) is acted upon quickly to the good of the public and emergency services.

_________________
Time to take responsibility for our actions.. and don't be afraid of speaking out!


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 12 posts ] 

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
[ Time : 0.246s | 13 Queries | GZIP : Off ]