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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 22:41 
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Just on the way back from Penrith this evening - about 7.30 and there was a squad car parked in a lay-by between Penrith and Threlkeld on the A66 Westbound. Immediately beyond the car was a white van (not a CSCP one) with a flap in the rear doors and a sign on it saying "Police camera in action".

What's all that about?????


About a mile down the road was another police car who appeared to have pulled over a "punter".

I thought they weren't into "proper" policing!?


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 23:18 
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Mole wrote:
What's all that about?????


ANPR. Another game of 'let's pretend' with numbers - in this case registration numbers.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 23:25 
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SafeSpeed wrote:
Mole wrote:
What's all that about?????


ANPR. Another game of 'let's pretend' with numbers - in this case registration numbers.

Yep. We joke about Speed Cameras being a form of tax, but ANPR really is all about revenue collection!

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 24, 2006 23:47 
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JT - I'll put a mug in my shop window with a notice saying "You've seen the mug, now buy the car!"

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 21:11 
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Ahhhh! I see. Are they checking for tax, insurance MOT??

They won't have much luck on MOT because mine is still one of those pre-computerised ones.

Why don't they have a sort of "Premium Bond" style draw each month - if your number comes up, you could get a share of the speeding fines they've netted that month! - might further increase the (already huge) public support for scameras!


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 22:17 
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Mole wrote:
Ahhhh! I see. Are they checking for tax, insurance MOT??

They won't have much luck on MOT because mine is still one of those pre-computerised ones.

Why don't they have a sort of "Premium Bond" style draw each month - if your number comes up, you could get a share of the speeding fines they've netted that month! - might further increase the (already huge) public support for scameras!


they check for a little more than that

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2006 22:55 
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But it's ultimately still going after the easy targets though, isn't it?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 08:36 
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camera operator wrote:
Mole wrote:
Ahhhh! I see. Are they checking for tax, insurance MOT??

They won't have much luck on MOT because mine is still one of those pre-computerised ones.

Why don't they have a sort of "Premium Bond" style draw each month - if your number comes up, you could get a share of the speeding fines they've netted that month! - might further increase the (already huge) public support for scameras!


they check for a little more than that


Are you allowed to tell us what?

Just curious!


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 09:57 
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Mole wrote:
camera operator wrote:
Mole wrote:
Ahhhh! I see. Are they checking for tax, insurance MOT??

They won't have much luck on MOT because mine is still one of those pre-computerised ones.

Why don't they have a sort of "Premium Bond" style draw each month - if your number comes up, you could get a share of the speeding fines they've netted that month! - might further increase the (already huge) public support for scameras!


they check for a little more than that


Are you allowed to tell us what?

Just curious!


Probably not. What right do citizens have to know which aspects about them are being studied and analysed for more taxes?

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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 12:19 
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camera operator wrote:
they check for a little more than that


Yeah - they'll discover that there are huge holes in their intelligence.

An ANPR ping for anything other than tax/MOT or reported stolen basically means what exactly?? Plenty scope for supposition but it's evidence of sweet FA...


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PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2006 13:23 
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Again - the car could show up as taxed, mot'd and the OWNER being insured to drive it - so the "car" is "SAFE".

Now how does that tell them that the driver has a licence/ is a person insured to drive it /is sober/not on drugs etc /etc.
On these ANPR jobs ,are the traffic officers i see attached to these units allowed to use their own discretion, or are they tied to instructions from the camera.Be nice to think both.

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PostPosted: Thu Apr 27, 2006 22:28 
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You've gone awfully quiet, Cam Op!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 18:11 
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ANPR definitely has some uses, and we have had some decent lock ups on the back of it. It needs to be updated with good quality intel for it to be effective.

I'll reserve judgement on its long term effectiveness. :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 18:30 
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IanH wrote:
ANPR definitely has some uses, and we have had some decent lock ups on the back of it. It needs to be updated with good quality intel for it to be effective.

I'll reserve judgement on its long term effectiveness. :wink:

An interesting program on Sky a while ago, showed I think STOKE, where all their in/out routes are monitored by cameras, and linked to ANPR, and an adjacent town where they had fewer cameras and no ANPR. The ANPR gave lots of leads, which the traffic cars chased down and stopped, but in several instances on the film, the reasons for the data being on the system had expired. 40% of the stops were pointless. Of the 60% of valid stops, many were to find persistant offenders who the officer in one car said should have been locked up several offences ago. :oops:
In the adjacent town, the ratio of stops to convictions using "senior eyeball" was equal to the ANPR led stops, but missed some of the higher priority stops for offences OTHER than motoring.

On balance, if anything, it showed stopping was pointless without the back up of the courts in actually handing down sentences which were meaningful!

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 19:40 
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As Paul said - another game of 'let's pretend'. Enforcement is a total waste of time and resources if the investment in trial and conviction isn't there.

I think they are still relying on the concept of deterrance, which of course is a joke as they are working on the assumption crims are more naive and thick as they are...


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 19:51 
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r11co wrote:
.

I think they are still relying on the concept of deterrance, which of course is a joke as they are working on the assumption crims are more naive and thick as they are...


Another point - few years ago - we saw ANPR vans everywhere with the impressive signs "Recording signs of crime" etc. The location of these vans was usually on some major route or road(s) favoured by the illegals ( as far as i can tell from Warks) .Nearby advertising the vans were several highly visible traffic units.
Of late the vans have disappeared , and as far as i can see so have the traffic units.
Is the disappearance of the ANPR vans linked to the dissapearance of traffic units.(Per another thread in answer to TSM -someone gave reduction as very high percent )

So another answer could be that the odds on getting caught are getting higher :?:

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 21:20 
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Its a bit like fishing, you catch the fish, then put him back in the water ready for the next fisherman; or at least that is what seems to happen. No wonder real criminals couldn't care less about the police. They fear them not, it's only the ordinary law-abiding citizen, who is affected by these devices if the old Road Tax has been forgotten and is a few days over. He gets a serious fine which he may not be able to pay.

When I look at these 'Police, Camera, Action' films on television, it is obvious the criminals get away with almost murder. The penalities imposed for what I consider SERIOUS crime are laughable. This tells me ANPR is all about money, not crime. After all, the Government are considering hypothecation of fines generated by it.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 21:39 
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Mole wrote:
You've gone awfully quiet, Cam Op!


sorry just refound this post

no offence but i do not feel it necessary to disclose all the databases available to ANPR, but as stated they expand past tax and mot, most of the ops are inteligence led, planned in advance and resources allocated

as ianh has said it is only as good as the intel inputted

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 30, 2006 22:51 
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OK, and I can understand (or at least, I can imagine I might understand) your reasons for this but as far as Joe Public is concerned (by which I suppose I really mean "me"!) this doesn't do much for healthy relationships between the police and the policed! As a tax payer, I feel I have some sort of right to know what people are trying to find out about me. I don't imagine I'm alone in this respect.


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PostPosted: Mon May 01, 2006 10:43 
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safedriver wrote:
When I look at these 'Police, Camera, Action' films on television, it is obvious the criminals get away with almost murder. The penalities imposed for what I consider SERIOUS crime are laughable.

Exactly. The "system" appears to make no distinction between inadvertance and premeditated culpability, the penalties levied are much the same. Watching these "Police, Camera..." docusoaps is a depressing experience. Crazy, usually young, frequently "high", drivers are pursued by the police - and I have my doubts about the sanity and sense of some of the policemen involved too... They may well, indeed generally are, be very well trained; but, to quote "Mr Scott" from "Star Trek", "ye cannae repeal the Laws of Physics" and no amount of training can overcome the fundamentals of the universe.

Then, at the end of the program, they announce the "draconian" penalties that have been imposed and you want to cry... Tiny fines, which will probably be unpaid, derisory "community punishments", suspensions and disqualifications for people who already have several of same running consecutively, the odd day in the nick for young men who probably see it as a badge of honour... Compare that and the effects it might have upon what can happen to an "ordinary bloke" who has had the bad luck to get pinged 4 times in three (possibly very high mileage) years - loss of job, house, etc etc...

Rant over.

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