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PostPosted: Wed Dec 13, 2006 20:59 
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Ziltro wrote:


You can get stuck at the junction in the first image for a couple of minutes even when there aren't any cars passing on the other phase. The council reckon the traffic lights adjust according to traffic flows. What a load of bollocks, because it is commonplace to have to wait for nobody for ridiculous lenghts of time.

The second image is at a junction that was recently resignalled. Turning movements were banned and the north-south and vice versa routes made buses only. However, at the same time they added extra phases to give north-south etc bus movements seperate phases, even though only one or two pass through each time. It was unnecessary, and congestion here is worse, both for the ring road and for London Road where they are trying to improve environmental quality (progress on the project has stalled somewhat).

The third image shows a junction that isn't so bad, but is still more inefficient than in other parts of the country that use supposedly less advanced computer systems.

The traffic lights in Southampton are controlled by a multi-million pound computer system that is supposedly one of the most advanced in Europe. However, unlike the lingo the council give you the traffic lights don't adjust their timings according to traffic flow, and they severely hamper traffic flow rather than improving it. Southampton City Council live in a dream world. If you say something is bad and provide examples of it they dismiss it and say that whatever it is is good. It goes for inefficient traffic lights, bus lanes not on bus routes, and schools that are being closed down.

Too many traffic lights, and too inefficient. One day there will be a traffic light at the end of my driveway!

Southampton, a city where a school catchment area can cut off midway up a tower block! We're run by monkeys; actually, they're too clever.


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 13:43 
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More grist.... http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0, ... 43,00.html


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 13:52 
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Also see this:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/ ... 40,00.html

Quote:
I like traffic lights, but only when they're dismantled
Martin Cassini

What causes traffic jams? That’s easy: too many cars. No, wrong. Think again. What causes much of the congestion on our streets are traffic lights.

Think of all the hours in your life wasted as your car journey is stopped by lights to let non-existent traffic through. And then ask yourself this: who is the better judge of when it’s safe to go — you, the driver at the time and place, or lights programmed by an absent regulator? Traffic lights exist as a “cure” for a man-made malady — the misconceived priority rule. This rule confers superior rights on main-road traffic at the expense of minor-road traffic and pedestrians. To interrupt the priority streams, lights are “needed”.

Before 1929 when the priority rule came into force, a sort of first-come, first-served rule prevailed. All road users had equal rights, so a motorist arriving at a junction gave way to anyone who had arrived first, even the humble pedestrian. Motorists had a simple responsibility for avoiding collisions, and a duty of care to other road users.

IMV while this may work for small minor road junctions (which arguably should have mini-roundabouts anyway) I can't see it being applied to major roads. Even if there is no formal priority at a junction, in practice a de facto priority would soon assert itself.

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PostPosted: Thu Jan 25, 2007 18:28 
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I did 'invent' a device here which might be able to get around this problem.
Maybe it wasn't exciting enough though. Nobody has responded yet. :roll:

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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 23:14 
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no lights here... so much better!
(video link)


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 23:50 
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johnsher wrote:
no lights here... so much better!
(video link)


Dont know whether you meant that as a joke or not

But Im guesing you meant it seriously since, If you look at the traffic flow through the junction and the complete absense of queues leading up to it I would say that actually works out pretty damn well!

(Note, the traffic from the right looks quite heavy, There may be queues off camera but nevertheless it still seems to be moving relativly freely)

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:21 
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Dusty wrote:
I would say that actually works out pretty damn well!

maybe it works as such but there's no way I'd want to be doing that at every major junction I come to. Just think of the number of small shunts that must happen at these junctions. Might not matter much if you've got a car that can be repaired with a hammer, but for the rest of us it's a slightly bigger problem which will lead to... STRESSSSSS at every junction.


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 17:25 
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Daily Echo news article

Quote:
Traffic lights cause chaos on motorway
By Clare Kennedy

ANGRY motorists were left fuming this morning following the introduction of traffic lights at a busy Southampton junction that has caused lengthy tailbacks.

The new traffic light system on the westbound slip road at junction three of the M27 affected motorists joining the M271 and caused tailbacks to the M3 interchange during this morning's rush hour.

Previously drivers heading from the M27 onto the M271 enjoyed the use of a 'protected lane' with no red lights to contend with.

Today Highways Agency bosses defended the new traffic light which they said was designed to reduce congestion in the area - a problem that some motorists believe has now been made worse.

Agency route manager Guy Berresford said: "The new traffic lights on the roundabout will ease congestion at this location and will help drivers reach their destinations safely without unnecessary delays."

Highways Agency spokesman Martin Deller admitted there had been lengthy queues this morning but said these were down to the phasing of the lights which would be corrected


I saw Guy Berresford at the M27 Widening exhibition where lots of people were complaining about the junction 3 scheme to install more traffic lights and also close part of the roundabout. He didn't use very good arguements, and indeed, for some of his remarks he should have been sacked, such as "Well, you shouldn't be using your cars." How can somebody who manages motorways (cyclists, pedestrians and equestrians banned, public transport virtually non-existant) be allowed to have that job with that view?


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 20:43 
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I can vouch for this being a disaster as a lot of my staff were late due to this daft scheme. How can replacement of an unrestricted left filter with a lights controlled slip road possibly ease congestion. It makes no sense. If you stop the flow of traffic it will cause a jam.

The big danger here is the queuing back onto the motorway. Still, if a few people are killed Mr Beresford will say it has been worth it.

I expect local roads to become much more crowded tomorrow - perhaps this is the idea, to get traffic off the motorway by stealth.

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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 23:39 
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Total disaster waiting to happen! : :shock: :no:
Quote:
Dear Mr Anton

Thank-you for your e-mail to the Highways Agency Information Line regarding the M27 Junction 3 improvement works. I am very sorry to learn that you were inconvenienced on your journey to work this morning.

The works taking place at this junction include the introduction of traffic signals on the westbound exit slip of the M27 Junction 3 and the southbound over bridge of the M271, to improve the operation of the junction and ease congestion. We are also carrying out resurfacing works at these locations.

The free-flow lane for Southampton-bound traffic is no longer operational however both M27 westbound off-slip lanes are available for this purpose, and this will improve traffic flows for all users of this junction.

The work started on 8 March and will be completed by 6 April, weather permitting.

Mobile VMS signs are shortly to be placed on the M27 Junction 3 off-slip road to advise drivers of the availability of the two lanes for Southampton-bound traffic.

Once again, please accept my apologies for this interruption to your normal journey.

Yours sincerely,

Abi Masters
Route Administrator
Traffic Operations Area 3 Team
The Highways Agency
abigail.masters@highways.gsi.gov.uk

the drivers alreadyknew that they could use both lanes and were using them. they managed to stuff the m27 and the m3 till 11am.

e mail them and ring them on 08457 504030

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“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 23:53 
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What about this, sent today.

Quote:
Dear Ms Masters,

Thank you for making a lot of my staff late for work this morning due to the inept implementation of traffic lights on the above junction.

You do not seem to be able to see that stopping previously free flowing
traffic filtering south on the M271 will cause a massive jam. I cannot see
how this scheme can ever reduce congestion and I suggest that you remove it immediately to the benefit of the South Hampshire economy.

All that will otherwise happen is that drivers will use smaller, less
suitable and more hazardous roads instead of the motorway and congest these routes instead. Perhaps this is what you desire.

Yours sincerely,

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 00:39 
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I trust they have filled in all the craters in the M271 before they started installing traffic lights?

I have seen this junction and although they could possibly improve the lines or signage or something letting you know which lane goes where I can not see how traffic lights could improve anything. Traffic from M27 westbound had free-flowing access to the M271. Traffic from the roundabout (including M27 eastbound) also had a free flowing lane. Now they improve traffic flow by stopping everyone?

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 19:01 
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These lights had front page treatment in the Daily Echo today (and a spread on pages 2 and 3) plus a critical editorial.

Why is the Echo so upset? Their offices are just off the M271 near these traffic lights. :)

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 09:06 
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I am going to send a FOI request asking how many phone calls and email complaints they received

Also the traffic data from the motorway and road side recorders installed the other week and how that affected local c roads.

I will ask them to calculate the man hours lost in the jams.

any other good questions?

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


Last edited by anton on Wed Mar 21, 2007 13:56, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 13:35 
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anton wrote:
I am going to send a FOI request asking how many phone calls and email complaints they receiced

Also the traffic data from the motorway and road side recorders installed the other week and how that affected local c roads.

I will ask them to calculate the man hours lost in the jams.

any other good questions?


Yeah...

- What individual or committee made the final decision?
- What issues and what data did they base that decision on?
- What 'wider effects' did they consider?

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 15:41 
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Another "Echo" 2 page spread today. :twisted:

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PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 17:08 
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It gets even better, they plan to close lane1 between the junctions slip road off and slip road on the east bound side so all the lorries and horseboxes will have to get out to lane 2. I can see the evening jams reaching to Bournemouth :no:

The more they mess it up the more come past my house.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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PostPosted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 22:30 
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Has anybody seen the petition asking for some traffic lights to be switched off when not needed?

http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/traffic-lights/

Please sign if you think they're not needed 24/7, and bring back part-time signals. Where they still exist the junctions work!


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 Post subject: Remove traffic lights!
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2007 17:59 
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The traffic light is the ultimate totem of the control freak!

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PostPosted: Sat Apr 21, 2007 23:05 
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or this one
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/m27m271/
Quote:
We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to Remove the traffic lights at the exit of the m27 onto the m271.

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Speed limit sign radio interview. TV Snap Unhappy
“It has never been the rule in this country – I hope it never will be - that suspected criminal offences must automatically be the subject of prosecution” He added that there should be a prosecution: “wherever it appears that the offence or the circumstances of its commission is or are of such a character that a prosecution in respect thereof is required in the public interest”
This approach has been endorsed by Attorney General ever since 1951. CPS Code


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