Safe Speed Forums

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Too much of our money is being wasted on supposed road safety improvements that are actually making driving more dangerous.

Typical of the woolly thinking that is the whole "speed kills" side of the argument. The trouble is that the hard of thinking will believe it, as they do the "speed kills" message.

As I said here, a driving licence is not a privilege and to extend the privilege concept to all road users is quite absurd. Is a pedestrian's use of the road a 'priviliege'. FFS - bloody idiots.

This opens the door wider to the concept of driving bans as punishment for non-driving offences.

Rod

As I said (slightly tongue in cheek) in another thread:

We will soon have children denouncing their parents for exceeding 30mph. Totalitarianism here we come - I'm joining Neue Arbeit straight away to get in before you lot and get my black shirt.

The social scientists always used to blame "society" for any ills. Now it really is true that "We are all guilty". [/i]

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Malcolm W.
The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not represent the views of Safespeed.

Well, my sig since I joined the forum has always said that...

If someone isn't competent at flying, we don't allow them to take control of an aircraft. Similarly, unless someone has had years of training, we don't let them perform surgery. When will the general public realise that when you're driving, you're operating a piece of heavy and potentially lethal equipment, and unless you're capable of performing to a required standard then you shouldn't be allowed to.

Having read observer's linked post I do agree that possibly 'privilege' is slightly the wrong word, but I do think that it makes the point that just because you're over 17 doesn't automatically give you the right to hold a driving licence.

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Science won over religion when they started installing lightning rods on churches.

No, but passing the driving test does give you that right. And with that right comes the right to use any public road.

But with rights come responsibilities. The responsibility of the driver is to make sure they drive a car in a safe and competant manner, with due consideration to other road users.

I see no problem with withdrawing that right for someone who persistantly fails to do this. No ban should be for life, but should be until they can demontrate they understand the the responsibilities that go with driving a car.

This sloganising of the obvious does worry me. The whole business of "rights" has got us into enough of a mess.

Owning and driving a car is certainly a responsibility, and anyone abusing that responsibility may have their "right" to drive (acquired, as Maverik says, by passing your test) removed.

I'm not sure what is achieved by calling it a privilege. There is something menacing about the word. In an advanced society, most people see car ownership as a part of everyday life, not something for which they should be obsequiously grateful (to Mr Prescott?) each time they place key in ignition.

Labelling it a privilege implies that the state has somehow granted you a special honour for which you should thank it. Sorry, but the state has not earned sufficient respect. If anything, it should be ashamed that it has not brought the roads it built - on our behalf and at our expense - up to a decent standard.

Please, forget this "privilege" nonsense and concentrate on the things that matter.

How about these terms:

* Pedestrians and cyclists use the roads by right

* Motorists use the roads by licence

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

I think therefore I drive

If it is a “privilege” then that lends to the argument that it can be rationed. That prospect scares me.

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Speed camera policy Kills

It is my right to drive my motor vehicle on the public highway in the same way as it is my right to call myself a chartered engineer.

I am qualified to exercise both rights.

A privilage is something which you are awarded that you do not automatically possess or can earn. An MBE or a Lordship is a privilage that is bestowed not a qualified right.

Thats my definition....driving is a right subject to qualification.

Nice one Paul! (not sure about cyclists though. Rights = arrogance).

If slogans are the order of the day, there are more effective ones around, eg "Speed doesn't kill. Recklessness can."

What are your favourites?

Just for the sake of harmony, I'd like to point out that pedestrians and motorists can also be arrogant. Actually, so can horse-riders, and anyone else who uses the road in a manner other than that previously mentioned.



I think Paul's description sums it up rather well too.

Yes, that is a good way of putting it.

Currently, society in developed countries functions on the assumption that anyone within a normal range of intelligence, who isn't debarred by some medical condition, can become a licenced driver given sufficient motivation.

If that ceased to be the case, and driving was restricted to a privileged minority, or even a privileged 60%, then there would be profound implications for society.

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"Show me someone who says that they have never exceeded a speed limit, and I'll show you a liar, or a menace." (Austin Williams - Director, Transport Research Group)

Any views expressed in this post are personal opinions and may not represent the views of Safe Speed

Precisely. Which is why I find this whole "rights and privileges" thing a pointless distraction.

These are all members of the public enjoying the use of public open space, some needing a licence to operate a particular type of machinery. Horse-rider, cyclist, pedestrian or motorist, they should all extend common courtesies to each other. (Aside: In my experience, horse-riders are consistently the most courteous).

Paul

Curious. I've come across some really bolshie, arrogant and uncooperative horse riders. (This is NOT a generalisation... most are great!)

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Paul Smith
Our scrap speed cameras petition got over 28,000 sigs
The Safe Speed campaign demands a return to intelligent road safety

Perhaps we're lucky. The ones round our way seem to have a "courtesy culture" - they're extra cheery to motorists (probably realise they'd get mown down otherwise!).

This is speaking as someone who hasn't ridden for at least 30 years. The last old nag dropped dead beneath me. Haven't been near one since.

[quote="

This is speaking as someone who hasn't ridden for at least 30 years. The last old nag dropped dead beneath me. Haven't been near one since.[/quote]

I have never had one die beneath me, and am still riding the same old nag after 27years though probably not as often as I should.

On the right and privilege question I am surprised our police contributors have chosen to no comment?

On a more positive note it is good to see (though long overdue) real action is being taken against those who are anarchists on the road. The uninsured and banned are finally being focused on and hopefully we will all benefit. This group of drivers is exactly what Meredydd Hughes should be concentrating on if he wants to reduce accidents.
RJ

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Too much of our money is being wasted on supposed road safety improvements that are actually making driving more dangerous.

so what is it precisey he's tryng to say? cos if we're gonna go down that road, we're "priviledged" just to have food on our plates and clothes to wear.

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Fear is a weapon of mass distraction

If we take the "There are too many cars on the road" argument on, this is used as a justification to try to restrict road use through taxation.

Therefore the people who hold this view believe that driving should be a privilege reserved for the rich.

This is odd, because such opinions often originate on the left.

Surely it would be better to be a privilege reserved for the skillful?

Personally, I really wouldn't have a problem with retaking my test every, say, ten years in order to retain the privilege of driving, if it meant this process had removed some of the idiots from the road.

I think that for "rich" you should substitute "apparatchiks", ie "us"... Remember in the old Soviet Union, the centre lanes of all the main urban roads were reserved for the exclusive use of the Vlasti in their hand-built limousines. It'll be the same when the Greens take over, except they'll be travelling in lentil-shaped wheelbarrows pulled by teams of displaced corporate executives.

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"Politicians are the same the world over... We build bridges where there aren't any rivers." - Nikita Kruschev