Safe Speed Forums

I don’t know if the colour has an impact on the human brain like it does in the animal world where certain frogs, for instance, have vivid colours which say ‘poison’ watch out!

I say this because people by enlarge seem to notice and obey yellow box junctions and yet the white ‘KEEP CLEAR’ sign by my work entrance may as well say PLEASE PARK HERE for all the notice anyone ever takes of it.

BTW good topic Wayne. I've noticed this phenomenon too.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Well obviously. The only thing that could possibly ever be a substitute for reading the road ahead is already knowing the road ahead, so the signs are only really going to help those unfamiliar with the area.

However if those signs succumb to cry wolf syndrome then they don't even help with that.

In my perfect little world, signs like that would only be placed if the road is deceptive somehow, ie. if the road is more challenging than what a reasonable and competent(ish) driver would expect based on their observations from however many yards back. The classic example of such is where a road looks like a long sweeping bend, but then part way around it suddenly tightens into a 60 degree corner.

The rest of them would be consigned to the scrap, sorry recycling, bin along with those matrix signs that say "fog" when there's thick fog about.

what do you mean substitute? you should always be reading the road ahead no matter how familiar it is

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Richie

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Well yes, that's why I worded it the way I did, what I was trying to get at was in the event where the road is deceptive and likely to be read wrongly, actually knowing the area works

i noticed a lot of that the other day up north. signs for sharp bends and for not very sharp bends. you do feel like a bit of a tit when you cant see how sharp the bend is so you slow down to find out you neednt have bothered. still, better to slow down than to wind up in a field

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Richie

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Yep, and how many times do you need to be made to feel a bit of a tit before you start ignoring the sharp bend signs, including that one that actually meant it.

Then you end up in a field.

Obviously most folk here wouldn't fall for it, but amongst the masses, it's bound to happen.

I have a rule of thumb, that when a sharp bend sign states an advisory maximum speed limit then in an average car it's usually safe to double that number, visibility, weather etc. permitting. Obviously I don't just plough into the bend at the speed I've calculated (well maybe if I already know the bend in question and that it's safe to do so), but someone somewhere is going to do exactly that having reached the same conclusion I did, then one day they'll encounter the one bend in the country where the advisory speed is actually correct, then they'll end up in the field.

Basically what I'm trying to say is that duff information is more harmful than no information, as it devalues all information provided through that medium. This applies as much to bend warning signs as it does to matrix signs and to party political broadcasts.

On a slightly related note, I'd be interested to know how well the advisory speeds on those signs tie in with what you would do when driving a HGV (assuming a normal load, not something really fragile, or liquid)

i have found that the advisory limits are spot on for us. some are a little lower than necessary but it does show that they are completely irrelevant for cars. having said that, driver ability does come into it a lot too. i have had to slow occasionally on a bend due to a car driver going slower than me on the bend. we arent talking 2CVs either so it isnt the cars handling that is the problem. it is solely down to the driver not knowing how to drive properly

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Richie

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Was going to queery if the increase in signs is dueto people ignoring the "series of bends " sign ,but notice that there's not one(not in the HC-unless it in one or other of the pages I didn't look at )- oh and what a mess Direct.gov have made of the signs in their latest edition on the web -but (I'm sure )the signs still exist on the roads .(the Z bend one on it's side ,with the "series of bends " caption)

Don't mind the advisory limits ,but then we get sunday drivers thinking the reminders to HGV signs are lmit signs .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

It was removed when HC went through an over haul but its still in use, also what used to be 'double bend' sign is now an indicator of 'Bends' and no longer should you expect the direction of the first bend being indicated as it used to.. I think removal of about 60% of signs wouldnt cause any probs at all in fact it would probably improve things. Im getting fed up of signs that are incorrectly sited and incorrect in use. Just recently Ive come across two right hand bend signs posted just before a left hand bend that leads into a right hand bend. How does the novice and/or people not familiar with the area yet are sign observers cope with that in the dark or rain or fog let alone in good vis?

Just before I left my previous work I had to sign a similar situation, gentle left hand bend followed by a sharper right hander. Bend to right sign was no use as going with the regs meant it would be sited before the left hander and double bend sign wasn't justified for the first bend.

The solution was verge markers on the shallow bend to give a sense of the curve and then a chevron and verge markers on the right hand bend. Thought that using a 'peripheral' sign on the shallow bend and one sign at the point it was required would be the best solution.

Don't know if the work will get funding though!

Thoughts?

One sign I've noticed has the conventional bend sign with (for want of a better word) caption beneath it "bend tightens sharply" ---nice touch because without that it's not possible to judge what's happening - as the bend looks quite gentle .

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lets bring sanity back to speed limits.
Drivers are like donkeys -they respond best to a carrot, not a stick .Road safety experts are like Asses - best kept covered up ,or sat on

This is very true and even following advanced methods for reading the road ahead sometimes there are bends that are very difficult to read. I think advice along with a sign can be helpful but then again most people dont read road signs and only focus a few feet ahead more often than not in a strait line.

Am I the only one who thinks that the angle of the bend on the sign should bear some relation to the angle of the bend on the road?
Or would that make too much sense?

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Andrew.

I'd vote for that Ziltro although I always thought the number of chevrons used represented the sharpness of the bend and speed of the road?

>>>>>>>> is more hairy than >>> but I could be wrong.

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The views expressed in this post are personal opinions and do not necessarily represent the views of Safe Speed.
You will be branded a threat to society by going over a speed limit where it is safe to do so, and suffer the consequences of your actions in a way criminals do not, more so than someone who is a real threat to our society.

Yeah, I think so, if the bend even has any chevrons on it. I do know a reasonably sharp bend which doesn't have any.

But then you get situations like the A35 Tolpuddle Bypass, end of the dual carriageway heading down the hill towards Dorchester, piles of chevrons for an almost non-existent bend.

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Andrew.

You should try places like the Lake District for sharp bends with no signs yet I think they have a better Idea of less signs, till you get to major towns where they breed like locusts

Nonsense signs do give me a laugh though, I saw one the other day and not satisfied simple telling road users of a new traffic light signal system, they had made this sign which read 'New traffic light system ahead designed to reduce the level of congestion within the town centre'.......Why would you need to know this? And to top it all it was posted alongside or close to 3 warning signs which a lot of people will miss whilst trying to read a silly information sign that will have no effect on the way they drive through the town ahead. When you pass such a sign do you then go into 'driving towards a new traffic light system' mode?